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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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these are exciting times ladies and

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gentlemen in this first segment Chris

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O'Brien's going to tell us about a new

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cattle mutilation case a little bit

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later we'll hear from Chris Bukowski the

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Canadian UFO researcher about his survey

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of 25 years of reports of course when

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you talk about UFOs one of the issues at

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Roberts shaver raised last week was the

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reliability of eyewitness testimony

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because the skeptic will assume it's all

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conventional and the eyewitness is just

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plain wrong now a couple of things to

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mention about that and I won't dwell on

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it number one I wrote to Kathleen Mardan

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who is Betty Hills niece and should

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probably be on the show in the next few

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explain any case she remarked that in

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general Schaffer misrepresents the facts

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about the hill case to prove his point

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that's one thing the second thing of

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course is that we have this disagreement

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apparently between Micah Hanks and

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Robert Schaefer because banks in talking

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with Schaffer got the impression he

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believed that a lot of the people who

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report UFOs are lying when we posed that

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question to him last week well maybe

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some are so we have two testimony

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versions here and if Schaffer is right

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that you can't believe a person's

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testimony well why should we believe him

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why should we believe what he has to say

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or his version of facts if what people

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say is unreliable I put that to you

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Chris well boy you've got to go out and

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actually do fieldwork to really get a

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sense of of how people's memories can

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fade how their recollections can differ

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from one person to the next in a group

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that had a singular event occur to them

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you just can't sit back in your armchair

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and make sweeping pronouncements about

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very fundamental elements such as this

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and I think it it does the

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does someone with a half a brain on

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their shoulders a disservice to make

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sweeping pronouncements like that I

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think the big problem also about this is

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he tries to paint this all with a broad

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brush he gives you casual very simple

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versions of cases some of which as we

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pointed out with the Rendlesham case are

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just plain wrong he says well there's

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nothing to it now I understand we should

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be skeptical because we have a problem

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in the UFO field where some people

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accept everything which you can't do and

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I think those who really look at the

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subject carefully are going to admit

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that over 90% of the reports of UFOs can

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be explained by conventional means but

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what about the other 10% the other thing

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is that UFO researchers when they really

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dwell into an important case they want

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the ones with multiple witnesses so you

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can account for the variations and look

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for the consistencies go good point

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so anyway it's not that we're not going

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to ever have Schaffer on the show again

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he's a nice guy I'm sure he believes

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everything that he says but that's where

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you go

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speaking of testimony this cattle

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mutilation case that you and David

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Perkins are looking into can you tell us

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more like an these cases occurred about

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13 miles northeast of Wallenberg

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Colorado which is between Trinidad which

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is on the border with New Mexico right

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on i-25 between trinidad and pueblo

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colorado it's the next county east of

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the San Luis Valley counties of Coastie

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and Alamosa and these animals were found

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two of them were found I believe on

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August 8th and then another six animals

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were discovered the following weekend we

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have a veterinary report that's pending

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that's coming out there's eyewitness

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accounts here we go again a very unusual

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helicopter activity the night of these

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reports and also unusual object

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sightings as many as it doesn't possibly

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in one one particular account some of

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the helicopter activity is in my mind

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very theatrical in in one case the night

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of I think the second weekend of the

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sixteenth again I'm not totally familiar

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with the exact details of what happened

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when I'm still kind of getting myself up

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to speed but we have very interesting

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account of at least four military-style

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helicopters shining spotlights on the

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ground and in one instance actually

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shining into a ranchers house awakened

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his wife up and and they both ran out to

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to check it out

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this is highly unusual this case there's

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elements from last March of lasers being

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pointed at airplanes from the ground and

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coordinates by the FAA being forwarded

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to where final County authorities who

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were dispatched when this happened again

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the following week again this is back in

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March and it's maybe just a coincidence

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but the animals that were found

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mutilated in one of these two groups

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we're in the same pastures the

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coordinates from someone painting

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civilian aircraft from the ground with a

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fairly high powered laser so there's

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some pretty interesting elements here

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and and the Sheriff's Department is

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taking all this very very seriously

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ex-sheriff luger odo who of course was

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made famous in the linda house movie a

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strange harvest one of the few law

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enforcement officials that have come

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forward and said he thinks that these

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animals will be mutilated from aliens

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from outer space lou is now in his mid

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to late 80s he's getting up there in

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years but he's getting involved here and

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we have obviously this article coming

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out in the where from the world journal

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which would have come out Thursday

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before the show here and as with many

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many cases of this type when you have a

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large number of animals like this in a

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single case there's a probability I

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would say beyond a possibility that

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other cases are occurring and not being

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reported once this hits the media you

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know invariably these cases

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now people start talking so you know

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this is an ongoing investigation I am

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kind of scooping David a little bit by a

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few hours here we're taping on Wednesday

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before the show that airs on Sunday so

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by the time the show airs this is really

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going to I think go all over the net and

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probably go international this is quite

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a number of animals to be reported in a

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single single week from a single small

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area now in general if someone has a

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situation like this a rancher encounters

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some kind of episode of this nature

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where do they go do they go to the local

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police is that the immediate place yeah

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generally the calls is filed with the

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local sheriff uh we're talking about

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fourteen thousand dollars worth of of

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cattle here so this isn't a loss a lost

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investment one of the ranchers is a very

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large rancher there were only four

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hundred some-odd and head in this

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particular herd but he has animals all

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over the West he has the wherewithal and

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the means to have veterinarian pathology

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reports conducted and pathology exams to

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be conducted so we are waiting to hear

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some toxicology results one of the

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things that is very unusual is for the

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animals we've gone over with a metal

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detector there was some question and

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maybe they had been shot and you know

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these are classic mutes in the sense

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that there's no footprints with tire

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tracks or any sort of evidence at the

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site but this is a very good idea

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actually to go over the animals with

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carefully with a metal detector and for

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the animals showed some sort of metal in

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the hip but there was no visible means

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to you know there's no bullet holes or

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anything like that that would indicate

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why that metal was there the rancher

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thought perhaps they'd been darted and

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the darts had broken off and they just

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were unable to see them and locate them

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in the carcass but you know the vetal

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obviously tell us whether that's true or

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not we'll have more to report about over

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the coming weeks you can also check out

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our forms at forum dr. Peric ascom quick

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reminder if you join our newsletter our

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weekly podcast newsletter bike

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to the power cast calm and signing up

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will email you a copy free of the eBook

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version of secrets of the mysterious

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valley by chris hundreds of people are

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signing up so a lot of attention is

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certainly being drawn to that book in

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any case today chris wachowsky is going

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to talk about a report in which he was

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involved called ufos over canada 25

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years of UFO reports will talk about

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eyewitness testimony the reliability and

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the best cases a lot more to come with

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first game attack of the rock codes and

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it was a critically acclaimed success

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and now there's the coming of the

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protectors a former military

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intelligence man is contacted by a space

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woman in a dream a dream that turns out

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to be a nightmare because evil forces on

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our distant planet are planning to

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conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

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the coming of the protectors find out

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more at Rocko it's calm

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that's Rocko it's our ock oids calm so

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here's what happened

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I was placing an order online the site

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went down it took hours before it

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returned but I'd already placed the

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order with another company if your site

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goes down you could lose business and if

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you have a business or personal site

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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

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it will stay online at iWeb your site is

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hosted on one of the most reliable

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networks in the world talk to a sales

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rep at iWeb calm use the promo code tech

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night-owl for a special discount

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myk's Tennyson fremitus resources at no

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time in history have precious metals

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been more important certainly not in my

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22 years in the industry the dollar has

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lost over 90% of its value in the last

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60 years

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no fiat currency has ever survived the

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government printing presses ours is not

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immune the time is now to be proactive

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1-866 to 237 extension 1 1 6 anything

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tied to the dollar is at risk

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CDs annuities 401 k's IRA stocks bonds

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you name it so decide do you want to

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leave a legacy of wealth or debt for

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your family the choice is yours

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call me at one eight hundred six eight

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six to 237 extension one one six that's

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one eight hundred six eight six two two

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three seven extension one one six be

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proactive not reactive call

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[Music]

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whoa this is big by popular demand the

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freeze-dry guys giant factory authorized

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sale has been extended now through

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August save 30 to 45 percent on number

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10 cans of high-quality mountain house

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freeze-dried foods from the freeze dry

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guy now is the time to stock up on all

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factory fresh stock of the finest

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best-tasting longest proven shelf life

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Foods in the industry had giant savings

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of thirty to forty five percent but

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hurry supplies are limited so this sale

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is only through the end of August call

274
00:13:37,180 --> 00:13:35,150
eight six six four zero four three six

275
00:13:39,460 --> 00:13:37,190
six three free shipping to the lower 48

276
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:39,470
states click freeze dry guide.com

277
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,810
or call eight six six four oh four three

278
00:13:46,450 --> 00:13:43,760
six sixty three that's freeze dry

279
00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:46,460
guide.com hurry the giant factory

280
00:13:49,570 --> 00:13:48,110
authorized mountain house sale with

281
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:49,580
savings of thirty to forty five percent

282
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:51,770
is extended through august from the

283
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:54,170
freeze dry guy the finest freeze-dried

284
00:14:02,050 --> 00:13:56,330
and dehydrated foods available anywhere

285
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:02,060
for long term storage we'd like to hear

286
00:14:06,610 --> 00:14:04,130
from you if you have a comment or

287
00:14:10,660 --> 00:14:06,620
question about the para cast sent it to

288
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:10,670
news at the para cast com that's news at

289
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:13,730
the para cast calm and don't forget to

290
00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:15,830
visit our famous para cast community

291
00:14:23,380 --> 00:14:20,680
forums at forum dot the para cast comm

292
00:14:27,010 --> 00:14:23,390
with gene and Chris we have another

293
00:14:29,050 --> 00:14:27,020
Chris Chris root Kowski longtime UFO

294
00:14:31,330 --> 00:14:29,060
investigator and will talk about the

295
00:14:35,530 --> 00:14:31,340
survey in which he was involved covering

296
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:35,540
25 years of Canadian UFO reports Chris

297
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:37,100
welcome back to the power cast

298
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:38,570
thank you very much nice to be back

299
00:14:44,530 --> 00:14:42,290
let's focus on the first topic of the

300
00:14:47,050 --> 00:14:44,540
discussion here you listen to part of

301
00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:47,060
the episode last week with our friend

302
00:14:52,060 --> 00:14:49,550
Robert Shafer and Robert Shaffer is not

303
00:14:54,010 --> 00:14:52,070
impressed with UFOs not impressed with

304
00:14:56,410 --> 00:14:54,020
eyewitness testimony and as I mentioned

305
00:14:59,170 --> 00:14:56,420
to you I remarked in our previous

306
00:15:02,020 --> 00:14:59,180
segment that if what people say can't be

307
00:15:04,180 --> 00:15:02,030
relied upon how do we rely upon what he

308
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:04,190
has to say what's your reaction Chris

309
00:15:08,620 --> 00:15:05,990
well there's no question that witness

310
00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:08,630
testimony is always a little suspect I

311
00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:10,670
mean the argument is that witness

312
00:15:14,630 --> 00:15:12,140
testimony is enough to get

313
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:14,640
slammed into a sing singer alcatraz

314
00:15:18,890 --> 00:15:16,800
under most conditions so that's true

315
00:15:21,260 --> 00:15:18,900
however what happens is that there are

316
00:15:24,050 --> 00:15:21,270
procedures there's additional testimony

317
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:24,060
there's other evidence that's added into

318
00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:26,130
that I mean there's no question that one

319
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:28,529
should doubt witness testimony in a lot

320
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:31,170
of cases because we come to observations

321
00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:34,320
and life with our own biases we come

322
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:37,470
with a lot of extra baggage that does

323
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:39,690
tend to color our views of things I mean

324
00:15:43,579 --> 00:15:41,130
one only has to look at divorce

325
00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:43,589
proceedings in a in a court when you

326
00:15:47,930 --> 00:15:45,660
hear what he said versus she said and it

327
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:47,940
gets pretty messy sometimes and the

328
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:50,250
truth is somewhere in the middle very

329
00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:53,310
often so I have to say yes you should

330
00:15:57,950 --> 00:15:54,990
doubt witness testimony and in fact

331
00:16:01,100 --> 00:15:57,960
don't rely on it completely in fact

332
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,110
exclusively but one has to assume that

333
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:03,839
people are observing something in order

334
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:06,930
to generate the the responses so I sort

335
00:16:11,570 --> 00:16:09,810
of agree with Schaffer to a certain

336
00:16:14,630 --> 00:16:11,580
extent and I'm sure he would agree with

337
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:14,640
me on that as well but the problem is

338
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:16,800
that one has to accept certain things I

339
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:20,310
mean one accepts love there's an example

340
00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:22,440
birdwatchers you know bird-watching is a

341
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:24,260
very big hobby and people are always

342
00:16:28,579 --> 00:16:26,970
collecting notes son exchanging notes on

343
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:28,589
what birds were seen how many and so

344
00:16:32,570 --> 00:16:30,930
forth and ornithologist use this to

345
00:16:34,820 --> 00:16:32,580
supply information to biologists for

346
00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:34,830
understanding migration patterns a lot

347
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:36,060
of it actually has to do with climate

348
00:16:41,690 --> 00:16:38,670
change and you know it really feeds into

349
00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:41,700
a lot of other sciences even though

350
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:43,350
bird-watching by itself isn't a

351
00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:45,180
scientific discipline although you

352
00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:47,790
certainly do collect bird-watching data

353
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:50,550
through a good methodology so those

354
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:53,190
observations are generally accepted but

355
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:55,860
you know by themselves they may not mean

356
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,570
a lot of things to people but they are

357
00:17:01,550 --> 00:16:59,279
used in a lot of circumstances so I'd

358
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,560
have to say that UFO data while

359
00:17:06,020 --> 00:17:03,600
certainly suspect and one must be

360
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:06,030
suspect of witnesses observations you

361
00:17:09,710 --> 00:17:07,679
know they are valuable to a certain

362
00:17:12,410 --> 00:17:09,720
extent and that's kind of what we looked

363
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:12,420
at to our 25 years and also a recent

364
00:17:19,010 --> 00:17:15,410
study that I published this past week on

365
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:19,020
analysis of satellite reentry's versus

366
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:21,510
UFOs so there are a number of

367
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:23,670
circumstances where witness testimony

368
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:25,530
can be useful and as long as it's

369
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,510
useful but not exclusive to what you're

370
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:29,760
talking about I think we're fine so then

371
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:33,810
why didn't you do people like a Robert

372
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:36,450
Schaeffer tend to get key details of a

373
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:38,880
UFO case kind of screwed up that I was

374
00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:41,130
thinking of Rendlesham where he didn't

375
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:43,230
seem to understand that these people

376
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:46,770
were close up to a landed UFO and there

377
00:17:51,260 --> 00:17:48,780
were ill effects reported by people like

378
00:17:52,850 --> 00:17:51,270
John Burroughs and Penniston it's like

379
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:52,860
he thinks they made it up years later

380
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,130
well that's the the the back stance of a

381
00:17:59,720 --> 00:17:58,080
lot of skeptics and debunkers that it

382
00:18:03,050 --> 00:17:59,730
couldn't possibly happen therefore it

383
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:03,060
didn't and even with regard some of the

384
00:18:07,660 --> 00:18:04,650
studies that we put out the Canadian UFO

385
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:07,670
survey where we simply collect and

386
00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:10,170
record and analyze what people have

387
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:12,630
reported skeptics often say that all

388
00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:14,730
those reports can't be true or that your

389
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:17,040
data is obviously suspect well it's not

390
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:18,810
suspect because it's data it's the

391
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:22,320
interpretation that is the problem you

392
00:18:27,070 --> 00:18:24,780
know the in in the case of Rendlesham I

393
00:18:30,530 --> 00:18:27,080
mean it's a very complicated case and

394
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:30,540
people come to that case from different

395
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,850
approaches certainly the views of Peter

396
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:35,280
Robbins and others with regard to

397
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:37,500
Rendlesham as that have changed over the

398
00:18:40,550 --> 00:18:38,970
years and there's a lot of debate as to

399
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:40,560
what really happened and who's telling

400
00:18:44,330 --> 00:18:42,900
what and that type of thing but there's

401
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:44,340
no question that the incident occurred

402
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:47,160
now what that may be is another matter

403
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:50,430
and individuals who are you know avowed

404
00:18:55,220 --> 00:18:52,860
skeptics and debunkers will look at the

405
00:18:56,780 --> 00:18:55,230
evidence with with the viewpoint that it

406
00:18:58,880 --> 00:18:56,790
couldn't possibly have happened people

407
00:19:00,290 --> 00:18:58,890
are lying people have made it up how can

408
00:19:02,270 --> 00:19:00,300
we really interpret this in any other

409
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:02,280
way and sometimes when you throw the

410
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:03,930
baby out with the bathwater like that

411
00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:05,970
you're left with a very empty tub and

412
00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:07,320
there's nothing left to be seen at all

413
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:09,480
except maybe a ring and when you do that

414
00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:11,730
you're you may be missing the point of

415
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:14,700
the entire case and I think there must

416
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:16,740
be ways of handling cases without

417
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:19,110
disavowing everything I mean I would not

418
00:19:24,530 --> 00:19:22,200
get very far if I'm interviewing a UFO

419
00:19:27,020 --> 00:19:24,540
witness about his or her experience and

420
00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:27,030
my first point to make to the witness

421
00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:28,500
while I'm sitting there with him or her

422
00:19:32,990 --> 00:19:30,780
is you know I know you really didn't see

423
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:33,000
this but tell me what happened anyways

424
00:19:39,230 --> 00:19:35,250
that's that's simply not going to work

425
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:39,240
so why no one really has to

426
00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:41,640
spend some time listening and trying to

427
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:44,040
interpret the raw data without allowing

428
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:46,410
your own biases to creep into it the key

429
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:48,690
is to ask them what happened not leave

430
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:51,330
them on absolutely yeah and that that

431
00:19:54,530 --> 00:19:53,010
would be true in any situation not just

432
00:19:56,780 --> 00:19:54,540
you followed you but it certainly is

433
00:19:58,490 --> 00:19:56,790
important in ufology unfortunately

434
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:58,500
that's also the problem if you tried to

435
00:20:04,580 --> 00:20:01,620
hypnotic regression it's all too easy to

436
00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:04,590
lead the person on and have them deliver

437
00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:07,110
the conclusion that you want oh and that

438
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:09,150
is very very important to have I had the

439
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:11,370
good fortune of working with with

440
00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:13,490
individuals in Toronto during the MIT

441
00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:15,900
conference proceedings and that type of

442
00:20:20,660 --> 00:20:18,750
thing with regard to abductions and

443
00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:20,670
setting forth the guidelines for

444
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:22,350
abduction researchers and it was very

445
00:20:26,299 --> 00:20:24,210
fascinating to sit down with some of the

446
00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:26,309
experts and the researchers who were

447
00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:27,750
laying out guidelines and

448
00:20:31,610 --> 00:20:29,400
recommendations for abduction

449
00:20:33,980 --> 00:20:31,620
researchers and therapists most of whom

450
00:20:35,540 --> 00:20:33,990
simply didn't sign that or acknowledge

451
00:20:37,220 --> 00:20:35,550
the guidelines and agreement so it

452
00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:37,230
really went by the wayside so it's a

453
00:20:41,390 --> 00:20:39,720
tricky tricky issue and something that I

454
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:41,400
think really does need to be hammered

455
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:43,650
out do you have a general opinion about

456
00:20:47,330 --> 00:20:45,870
abductions since the subject has come up

457
00:20:50,030 --> 00:20:47,340
what do you think is happening for these

458
00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:50,040
people the key thing I see before you

459
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:53,100
answer is that in a number of cases

460
00:20:58,970 --> 00:20:55,770
people who supposedly were unaware of

461
00:21:02,780 --> 00:20:58,980
other reports of abductions produce the

462
00:21:04,669 --> 00:21:02,790
same basic fundamental details yes

463
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:04,679
there's no question of that over the

464
00:21:11,419 --> 00:21:07,890
course of I guess I've been at this for

465
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:11,429
35 going on 40 years now and I got into

466
00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:13,650
the abduction situation very early on

467
00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:15,150
when somebody came to me after one of my

468
00:21:20,299 --> 00:21:18,540
lectures back in the 80s and I've been I

469
00:21:23,450 --> 00:21:20,309
guess since then have had individuals

470
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:23,460
come to me or email me for whatever

471
00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:25,110
reasons over the past number of years I

472
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:27,830
actually created a support group for

473
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:31,710
abductees here in Canada quite a long

474
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:34,890
time ago now one of the first ones and I

475
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:37,320
facilitated it you know I did as much

476
00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:39,450
reading on the literature as possible

477
00:21:42,290 --> 00:21:40,740
consulted with a number Greenville's I

478
00:21:44,690 --> 00:21:42,300
thought will be interesting to see what

479
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:44,700
happens and I was concerned that they

480
00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:46,710
wouldn't the individuals who came out

481
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,900
wouldn't be getting any expert guidance

482
00:21:53,090 --> 00:21:50,640
otherwise I was actually working with a

483
00:21:56,930 --> 00:21:53,100
clinical psychologist on this

484
00:21:59,360 --> 00:21:56,940
and there's no question in my mind that

485
00:22:02,690 --> 00:21:59,370
ufology is the wrong Avenue in the wrong

486
00:22:04,669 --> 00:22:02,700
field for dealing with abductions and

487
00:22:06,820 --> 00:22:04,679
the reason I say that is that I

488
00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:06,830
encountered case after case where

489
00:22:13,399 --> 00:22:10,289
individuals we're clearly experiencing

490
00:22:15,860 --> 00:22:13,409
distress Yeahs ranging from something as

491
00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:15,870
simple as anxiety and depression either

492
00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:19,320
because of or as a consequence or

493
00:22:27,619 --> 00:22:23,220
leading into the experience or things as

494
00:22:29,659 --> 00:22:27,629
serious as rape and physical injury let

495
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:29,669
us let us explore the final answer that

496
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:30,690
in our next segment

497
00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:33,600
Chris Rutkowski will be covering 25

498
00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:37,470
years of Canadian UFO research and more

499
00:22:41,690 --> 00:22:39,960
about his views as to abductions in our

500
00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:41,700
next segment with Jean and Chris you're

501
00:22:52,129 --> 00:22:49,590
in the para cast independently leading

502
00:22:55,940 --> 00:22:52,139
the way for the nation compelling talk

503
00:23:02,720 --> 00:22:55,950
for every political persuasion we are G

504
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,730
C and is there a secret UFO agenda do

505
00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:04,799
strange creatures from the darkest

506
00:23:09,769 --> 00:23:07,529
corners of the mind roam the earth is

507
00:23:12,139 --> 00:23:09,779
there evidence for mind control time

508
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:12,149
travel or devious government

509
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,210
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

510
00:23:20,299 --> 00:23:17,700
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

511
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:20,309
activity and important phenomena when

512
00:23:24,889 --> 00:23:21,960
you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

513
00:23:27,919 --> 00:23:24,899
conspiracy girl it's jam-packed with

514
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:27,929
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515
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:30,570
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516
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,080
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517
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:36,960
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518
00:23:43,249 --> 00:23:39,750
Friday simply send an email with your

519
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:43,259
name and address to Mister UFO at what

520
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:48,840
TV net attached mr. UFO at web TV dotnet

521
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:52,320
find out what they don't want you to

522
00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:58,880
you

523
00:24:03,210 --> 00:24:01,290
there's a guy named dr. Wallach who is

524
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:03,220
anything but your typical doctor both a

525
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,690
veterinarian and a naturopathic

526
00:24:08,820 --> 00:24:07,120
physician doc asks why is this country

527
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:08,830
spending more money on health care by

528
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:11,200
far and ranking 50th in health and

529
00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:13,120
longevity worldwide doc believes that

530
00:24:16,380 --> 00:24:14,470
people should empower themselves with a

531
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:16,390
basic understanding of nutrition taking

532
00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:18,100
charge of their life and attaining

533
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:19,780
optimal health and longevity through

534
00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:21,910
nutrition not by toxic pharmaceutical

535
00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:23,230
drugs that lead to side effects that

536
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:24,940
require more expensive and toxic

537
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:26,710
pharmaceutical drugs talk about being

538
00:24:31,049 --> 00:24:28,390
dependent on drug companies to our own

539
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:31,059
destruction no less this is clearly a

540
00:24:34,110 --> 00:24:32,710
deadly recipe Aquatics message is

541
00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:34,120
resonating with an increasing number of

542
00:24:37,470 --> 00:24:35,860
Americans who are waking up to all the

543
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:37,480
government and big pharma manipulation

544
00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:39,190
of our health and health care system I

545
00:24:42,270 --> 00:24:40,750
like what doc Wallach is saying and

546
00:24:44,370 --> 00:24:42,280
doing to enlighten people about health

547
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:44,380
care now join forces with him to help

548
00:24:48,090 --> 00:24:45,730
this tireless crusader spread its

549
00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:48,100
message visit bright side bend calm and

550
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:49,780
listen to dr. Wallach steadly recipe

551
00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:52,090
lectures it makes a lot of sense and I

552
00:24:55,919 --> 00:24:53,590
invite you to join our bright side

553
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:55,929
Benteen go to bright side been calm

554
00:25:01,530 --> 00:24:59,679
that's wlwt's I've been calm don't

555
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:01,540
complain about your cable bill going up

556
00:25:05,549 --> 00:25:03,730
and up and I'll do something about it

557
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:05,559
grab a pencil and jot down this special

558
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:09,610
number 20 55 905 my TV the more cable TV

559
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:11,290
rates go up the better digital satellite

560
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:14,080
TV looks say goodbye to the Cable Guy

561
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:15,760
and get more of your favorite channels

562
00:25:22,140 --> 00:25:18,130
in 100% digital quality or less money

563
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:22,150
call 185 905 my TV sign up for packages

564
00:25:26,430 --> 00:25:24,250
starting as low as $19.99 and there's no

565
00:25:28,650 --> 00:25:26,440
equipment to buy you get free HD TV

566
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:28,660
upgrade a free DVR upgraded free

567
00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:30,730
professional installation you control

568
00:25:34,919 --> 00:25:33,160
what you watch when you watch it record

569
00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:34,929
your favorite shows pause and rewind

570
00:25:40,919 --> 00:25:37,929
live TV even skip the commercials watch

571
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:40,929
local channels - at just $19.99 what are

572
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:41,710
you waiting for

573
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:43,450
pull out your major credit or debit card

574
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:49,330
call 185 905 my TV 180 55 905 my TV say

575
00:25:55,140 --> 00:25:50,890
goodbye to the Cable Guy

576
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:55,150
cut costs and get more one 855 905 my TV

577
00:26:02,490 --> 00:25:59,520
one eighty five five nine oh five my TV

578
00:26:04,380 --> 00:26:02,500
this alert just came in this special

579
00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:04,390
announcement is for business owners and

580
00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:06,580
leaders of organizations who've been

581
00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:08,790
waiting for the right time to build

582
00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:11,350
general steel has made it impossible to

583
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:13,270
wait any longer with rock-bottom prices

584
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:15,490
that could save you thousands that's

585
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:17,770
right general steel America's leader in

586
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:19,930
pre engineered structures is offering

587
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:21,820
buildings at prices you will never see

588
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:24,250
again don't miss these prices of 50 by

589
00:26:29,790 --> 00:26:27,370
100 for $35,000 you heard right that's

590
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:29,800
5000 square feet for $35,000

591
00:26:33,810 --> 00:26:31,570
manufacturers if you need a larger

592
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:33,820
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

593
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:35,050
building for a hundred and twenty nine

594
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:37,120
thousand you can't afford to rent with

595
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:39,490
these prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot

596
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,050
church building for under sixty nine

597
00:26:44,790 --> 00:26:42,880
thousand dollars with the economy

598
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:44,800
improving and interest rates still at

599
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:46,930
historic lows you can't afford to wait

600
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:49,810
so call eight six six ninety one steel

601
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:52,450
lock in your price now call eight six

602
00:27:02,340 --> 00:26:55,330
six ninety one steel that's eight six

603
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:02,350
six nine one seven 83 35 hi this is Don

604
00:27:07,410 --> 00:27:05,110
Ecker and you are tuned in to the para

605
00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:07,420
cast let me tell you what you're gonna

606
00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:10,390
hear stuff here that you probably won't

607
00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:13,390
hear anywhere else hear that George

608
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:16,990
Noory so we're starting our focus with

609
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:18,250
chris wachowsky

610
00:27:25,860 --> 00:27:21,330
on the power cast with jean and chris on

611
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:25,870
abductions and before we broke you have

612
00:27:29,790 --> 00:27:27,610
gotten into a discussion about some of

613
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,800
the the basics about the abductions and

614
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:31,440
maybe you want to continue in that vein

615
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:34,480
sure and i was really just getting to

616
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:36,850
the point that a lot of the individuals

617
00:27:42,180 --> 00:27:38,890
who had come to me ostensibly with an

618
00:27:44,130 --> 00:27:42,190
abduction story really had other issues

619
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,140
ranging from something as simple as

620
00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:46,480
anxiety or depression to something more

621
00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:48,430
serious in a couple of cases of the

622
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:50,830
women who had experienced rape and other

623
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,530
traumas so this was completely beyond

624
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:56,080
the purview of ufology and so i felt

625
00:28:01,410 --> 00:27:58,450
completely obligated and then justified

626
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:01,420
in referring them to psychologist and

627
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:03,430
psychiatrist not because i thought they

628
00:28:06,330 --> 00:28:04,870
were crazy but

629
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:06,340
because I thought that they certainly

630
00:28:12,210 --> 00:28:08,770
needed some help in dealing with some of

631
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:12,220
the emotions and other health issues

632
00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:15,340
that were manifesting in fact the

633
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:17,080
clinical psychologists I were working I

634
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:19,720
was working with their goal was to help

635
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:21,910
relieve people's anxiety and other

636
00:28:27,060 --> 00:28:24,880
issues surrounding the belief that the

637
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:27,070
aliens were abducting them were

638
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,720
bothering them or keeping watch to them

639
00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:30,880
and that type of thing and in doing so

640
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:34,780
helping the the abductees themselves

641
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:36,450
come to terms of what's going on and

642
00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:39,070
help them that way so that was the the

643
00:28:44,790 --> 00:28:41,470
approach that was being taken and that's

644
00:28:48,419 --> 00:28:44,800
obviously beyond what many duction

645
00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:48,429
researchers do and have as backgrounds

646
00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:51,940
and and skill sets so for that reason I

647
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:55,750
tend to dissuade you follow just from

648
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:56,770
getting involved in the abduction

649
00:29:00,060 --> 00:28:58,690
situation you know I having said that I

650
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:00,070
mean there's some people who are doing

651
00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:01,450
some work and I've been doing some

652
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:03,550
long-standing work and and that's fine

653
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:06,640
my own views about abductions in general

654
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:09,970
and in my book abductions and aliens

655
00:29:15,630 --> 00:29:12,970
what's going on I say case after case

656
00:29:17,690 --> 00:29:15,640
after case of you know people who've

657
00:29:20,010 --> 00:29:17,700
come to me for assistance in health and

658
00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:20,020
my view is to treat them with compassion

659
00:29:25,260 --> 00:29:22,750
and understanding to try and get to the

660
00:29:27,299 --> 00:29:25,270
source of what's going on and there are

661
00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:27,309
cases where I simply have no idea what's

662
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:29,920
going on there are cases where I think

663
00:29:34,260 --> 00:29:31,600
people have had some traumas in their

664
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:34,270
lives and that is manifested in number

665
00:29:38,790 --> 00:29:36,000
of ways in fact that's been proven true

666
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:38,800
over and over in fact i postulated

667
00:29:43,049 --> 00:29:40,000
something called alien abduction

668
00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:43,059
syndrome work were some people not all

669
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:45,340
some people believe they didn't been

670
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:47,110
abducted for whatever reasons because of

671
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:49,210
issues in their lives and yet there are

672
00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:52,210
cases in fact in the 25 years study

673
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:55,150
which just came out last week I cited

674
00:30:01,710 --> 00:29:57,610
one case which a lot of people picked up

675
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:01,720
on of a nurse who told me a very unusual

676
00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:05,350
story about how she had come from a from

677
00:30:10,049 --> 00:30:07,990
her shift working in a hospital and she

678
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:10,059
you know prefaced it by saying look you

679
00:30:14,970 --> 00:30:13,210
know I am NOT into Star Trek and space

680
00:30:17,910 --> 00:30:14,980
operas and all that sort of stuff I

681
00:30:18,930 --> 00:30:17,920
don't have time for crew TV and x-files

682
00:30:21,540 --> 00:30:18,940
and all that

683
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:21,550
you know I'm very very busy and I don't

684
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:24,430
have vivid dreams but I had this weird

685
00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:26,110
experience that she told me about how

686
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:28,180
she had come home from a shift late at

687
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:30,880
night in an apartment come home went

688
00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:31,810
into her bedroom

689
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:34,060
heard a noise outside think he was a

690
00:30:39,180 --> 00:30:35,770
burglar went into her living room and

691
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:39,190
saw two creatures with round heads very

692
00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:42,250
round eyes very unusual that not typical

693
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:47,070
at all for the classic aliens but with

694
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:50,650
long white robes and appeared to be

695
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:53,050
mittens on their hands and she's up for

696
00:30:57,780 --> 00:30:55,480
another Holly uh Halloween pranksters or

697
00:30:59,270 --> 00:30:57,790
something like that and yet you know

698
00:31:01,890 --> 00:30:59,280
these creatures talk to her

699
00:31:04,110 --> 00:31:01,900
telepathically according to her asked

700
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:04,120
her if she wanted to go visit some

701
00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:07,000
planets with them invited her to come

702
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:08,440
with them and all of a sudden she

703
00:31:12,270 --> 00:31:10,120
remembered that she was immediately

704
00:31:16,350 --> 00:31:12,280
transported to a very large hangar where

705
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:16,360
there were a number of crafts both cigar

706
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:18,910
and disk was led into one of the cigar

707
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:23,230
craft led down a long gangway into the

708
00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:25,510
front where there was a control room

709
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:27,580
where she was sat between the two of

710
00:31:31,410 --> 00:31:29,530
them who manipulated dials and whatnot

711
00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:31,420
at a screen in front of them show that

712
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:33,220
they were leaving Earth traveling around

713
00:31:38,430 --> 00:31:35,530
a bit and then the next thing she knows

714
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:38,440
she was back in her bedroom they was

715
00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:40,090
about three or four hours later she was

716
00:31:44,430 --> 00:31:42,670
sitting on her bed not in her bed

717
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:44,440
clothes the bed had not been slept in

718
00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:47,200
and she was completely puzzled as to

719
00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:49,870
what had occurred and she simply you

720
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:51,430
know what reached out to me saying can

721
00:31:55,850 --> 00:31:53,350
you explain what happened can you tell

722
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:55,860
me what happened yeah sure

723
00:32:00,540 --> 00:31:58,810
and the woman had no reason to make

724
00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:00,550
anything up she was not seeking

725
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:03,670
publicity she infection

726
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:06,880
interviews from media it was very very

727
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:08,170
puzzling so what do you do with cases

728
00:32:13,470 --> 00:32:10,930
like that I've had cases where an Air

729
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:13,480
Force officer came into my office sought

730
00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:17,440
me out and explained that he's believed

731
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:19,270
that he had been abducted by aliens and

732
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:20,230
he certainly couldn't tell his

733
00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:21,910
commanding officer about it lord knows

734
00:32:25,650 --> 00:32:23,260
the Armed Forces have their own problems

735
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:25,660
these days you know and I proceeded to

736
00:32:30,210 --> 00:32:27,250
tell me his experiences when you get

737
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:30,220
cases like that from people who are in

738
00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:31,840
professions where these things shouldn't

739
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:32,230
have

740
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:34,809
and it really makes you wonder so in the

741
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,510
one hand we have abduction cases that

742
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:39,760
shouldn't and couldn't possibly happen

743
00:32:43,980 --> 00:32:42,010
and yet we have a number of instances

744
00:32:46,860 --> 00:32:43,990
where we have people reporting these

745
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:46,870
experiences and I can't rationalize I

746
00:32:52,140 --> 00:32:49,510
cannot justify dismissing all these

747
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:52,150
cases out of hand but I look at each one

748
00:32:57,539 --> 00:32:54,010
on a case-by-case basis and I say you

749
00:32:59,130 --> 00:32:57,549
know I think there's there's some good

750
00:33:00,450 --> 00:32:59,140
science that can be done I think I think

751
00:33:02,010 --> 00:33:00,460
there's some good studies that can be

752
00:33:03,810 --> 00:33:02,020
done good research and certainly the

753
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:03,820
help should be there for individuals who

754
00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:06,130
have had such experiences and come

755
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:07,960
forward with them well Chris you've been

756
00:33:14,220 --> 00:33:10,720
at this for four decades now and and you

757
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:14,230
see a gradual curtailing of abduction

758
00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:16,480
reports over the last let's say 10 years

759
00:33:23,850 --> 00:33:19,929
or is it burbling along it at the same

760
00:33:27,090 --> 00:33:23,860
level and when did when did you see an

761
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:27,100
increase in in abduction reports well

762
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:29,530
that's uh let's see now I'd have to say

763
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:34,240
that abduction reports probably peaked

764
00:33:38,970 --> 00:33:37,120
in the 90s there's no question that

765
00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:38,980
that's when the most cases that I

766
00:33:44,909 --> 00:33:41,320
encountered where things continued on

767
00:33:48,539 --> 00:33:44,919
well into the 2000s and I think there's

768
00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:48,549
been a decline but a radical shift and

769
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,790
what we're seeing what my experience has

770
00:33:57,299 --> 00:33:53,760
been is that we were seeing a lot of of

771
00:33:59,640 --> 00:33:57,309
abductee cases and now what we're seeing

772
00:34:01,500 --> 00:33:59,650
is that the abductions have shifted into

773
00:34:02,970 --> 00:34:01,510
a contactee phase which is interesting

774
00:34:05,270 --> 00:34:02,980
because that's how they started the

775
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:05,280
contactees in the 50s and 60s

776
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:07,690
disappeared for a while and then they've

777
00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:11,290
come back you know in full force now

778
00:34:16,740 --> 00:34:14,350
because a lot of the the books that are

779
00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:16,750
now being published a lot of the stories

780
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,260
and cases that are being discussed at

781
00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:22,480
UFO conventions and and wherever are

782
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:25,270
really more contactee where people are

783
00:34:27,899 --> 00:34:26,530
getting automatic writing their

784
00:34:30,419 --> 00:34:27,909
telepathic communications there's

785
00:34:33,389 --> 00:34:30,429
channeling which is a throwback right

786
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:33,399
right back to the 1950s and it's

787
00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:35,530
interesting that it's it's like the

788
00:34:40,169 --> 00:34:37,480
people who are experiencing oh and

789
00:34:43,409 --> 00:34:40,179
claiming contact right now are doing

790
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:43,419
this in a vacuum as if they had never as

791
00:34:47,889 --> 00:34:45,020
if the 50s had never

792
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:47,899
whatsoever and in fact it's yeah I took

793
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:50,720
a look at some of the 1950s contactee

794
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:54,250
cases and compared them to the 2010 ish

795
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,210
contactee cases and there's really no

796
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:58,880
difference so I suspect it's a

797
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:01,520
manifestation of the same phenomenon and

798
00:35:07,390 --> 00:35:04,720
whether we're talking you know people

799
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:07,400
communicating with or Athan or we're

800
00:35:11,830 --> 00:35:08,800
somebody a little more contemporary

801
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:11,840
rather bogo one of my favorites of all

802
00:35:16,170 --> 00:35:13,970
time yeah we're seeing the same type of

803
00:35:18,670 --> 00:35:16,180
phenomena so I I think the abduction

804
00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:18,680
phenomenon peaked in the 90s and it's

805
00:35:24,250 --> 00:35:22,520
really on the way out in fact I most of

806
00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:24,260
the cases that I've encountered recently

807
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,060
or more contactee rather than abductor

808
00:35:34,570 --> 00:35:28,400
you know do you see a row of up swelling

809
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:34,580
of cases begin well yeah probably late

810
00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:37,280
eighties early 90s just supposed to post

811
00:35:40,860 --> 00:35:39,320
whitley strieber communion then yeah

812
00:35:45,010 --> 00:35:40,870
somewhere in there I mean I remember

813
00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:45,020
reading but Hopkins book missing time

814
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:48,550
and there was a case in there that

815
00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:50,750
according to the book at least happened

816
00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:53,720
very close to me and when I called him

817
00:35:56,290 --> 00:35:55,160
and I said can you tell me a little bit

818
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:56,300
more about those because I can certainly

819
00:35:59,350 --> 00:35:57,770
assist you he said well I actually

820
00:36:01,930 --> 00:35:59,360
changed the location it didn't happen

821
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:01,940
anywhere near you but it was about that

822
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:04,930
time that I started receiving many more

823
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:07,910
abduction cases coming to me and it was

824
00:36:11,590 --> 00:36:08,960
just a matter of trying to figure out

825
00:36:14,410 --> 00:36:11,600
how to help people best know now when

826
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:14,420
you talk about kind of reverting back to

827
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:18,890
the earlier style of UFO contacts of

828
00:36:22,510 --> 00:36:20,270
course they were highly disputed

829
00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:22,520
especially contactees like George

830
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:25,640
Adamski are people seeing gray aliens

831
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:28,130
were the blond Venusians and martians of

832
00:36:32,620 --> 00:36:30,350
old will have the your answer in our

833
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:32,630
next segment Chris root Kowski we're

834
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:34,700
talking about 25 years of Canadian UFO

835
00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:36,890
sightings about contactees about

836
00:36:47,130 --> 00:36:41,030
abductions more to come with Gene and KK

837
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:49,900
you're listening to GCN proudly

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story you'll never forget a former US

844
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845
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by intense dreams about a beautiful

846
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847
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terrible battle in outer space but the

848
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dreams turned out to be true and thrust

849
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him into a telepathic love affair with a

850
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851
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852
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857
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threaten the lives of freedom loving

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864
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865
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866
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867
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868
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869
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870
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881
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882
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883
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885
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886
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887
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888
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:00,770
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889
00:39:05,010 --> 00:39:02,530
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890
00:39:07,050 --> 00:39:05,020
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891
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892
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years in serving thousands of satisfied

893
00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:11,560
customers the Berkey guy offers amazing

894
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:13,270
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895
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:15,520
systems the murky light systems include

896
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897
00:39:20,910 --> 00:39:19,030
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898
00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:20,920
that purify water by removing chlorine

899
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:23,470
pathogenic bacteria cysts and parasites

900
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:25,450
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901
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:27,520
harmful chemicals such as herbicides and

902
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pesticides order the Berkey light system

903
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904
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905
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906
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907
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purchase of a per key light the burka

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guy is also offering a set of fluoride

909
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and arsenic filters for only $39.99

910
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that's over 30 percent off the retail

911
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:45,640
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912
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:47,950
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913
00:39:52,350 --> 00:39:50,170
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914
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942
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this is Leslie Kane and I'm with the

943
00:41:10,990 --> 00:41:06,859
Coalition for freedom of information and

944
00:41:12,849 --> 00:41:11,000
you are listening to the podcast then

945
00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:12,859
when we have more than one Chris we call

946
00:41:18,609 --> 00:41:16,670
mr. O'Brien KK Barnes okay yeah so we

947
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:18,619
understand that works Chris rutkowski is

948
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:20,510
joining us so I asked you the question

949
00:41:26,410 --> 00:41:23,990
about the Forman nature of these new

950
00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:26,420
contacts are they seeing the same sort

951
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:28,430
of beings that Adamski and men drew

952
00:41:32,799 --> 00:41:31,040
reported as a matter of fact we are we

953
00:41:35,020 --> 00:41:32,809
are seeing a lot of the blondes as

954
00:41:37,450 --> 00:41:35,030
opposed to the Grays now and I think

955
00:41:39,940 --> 00:41:37,460
that's an interesting shift that people

956
00:41:42,579 --> 00:41:39,950
are reporting you know communications

957
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:42,589
telepathically with the ethereal beings

958
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:45,410
in some cases beings of a higher level

959
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:47,510
of development and certainly the the

960
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:49,970
impression that we're getting is that

961
00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:52,160
the greys are more the physical

962
00:41:57,819 --> 00:41:54,260
phenomena the physical manifestations

963
00:42:00,819 --> 00:41:57,829
and the the other types are more the

964
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,829
spiritual and the the ethereal so that's

965
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:02,240
what's coming through from the cases

966
00:42:07,299 --> 00:42:04,160
that we're getting I have to point out

967
00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:07,309
though that in the 25 years of Canadian

968
00:42:13,329 --> 00:42:09,470
UFO reports a very very small fraction

969
00:42:16,059 --> 00:42:13,339
are our abductions and contactee cases

970
00:42:21,010 --> 00:42:16,069
in fact it's so there's probably only a

971
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:21,020
enough to name on one hand but it is a

972
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:23,180
certainly a part of the and aspect of

973
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:25,760
the UFO phenomenon which has been you

974
00:42:28,930 --> 00:42:27,290
know certainly present in Canada as

975
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:28,940
anywhere else in the world let's go

976
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:32,210
further into the 25 years of UFO cases

977
00:42:36,010 --> 00:42:33,650
now I was looking at the numbers of

978
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:36,020
cases each year and I notice you had

979
00:42:42,579 --> 00:42:40,010
more sighting reports in 2012 and 2013

980
00:42:44,890 --> 00:42:42,589
than most of the previous years am I

981
00:42:48,730 --> 00:42:44,900
looking at that correctly yes in fact

982
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:48,740
there is a peak back in the 2012 we're

983
00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:51,410
not entirely sure why in fact things

984
00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:52,940
seem to have gone down a little bit

985
00:42:58,180 --> 00:42:55,750
since then but even so last year was

986
00:43:01,569 --> 00:42:58,190
still one of the highest numbers on on

987
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:01,579
record cases in general in fact it was

988
00:43:04,420 --> 00:43:03,290
interesting to read some of the reports

989
00:43:07,049 --> 00:43:04,430
and stories that have been in the news

990
00:43:09,730 --> 00:43:07,059
and some of the UFO publications about

991
00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:09,740
UFO reports seem to be on the decline

992
00:43:14,029 --> 00:43:12,420
there's hardly any reported anymore etc

993
00:43:16,940 --> 00:43:14,039
when in fact if you actually look at the

994
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:16,950
data the numbers are increasing have

995
00:43:21,950 --> 00:43:19,170
been increasing fairly constantly since

996
00:43:24,769 --> 00:43:21,960
the 90s we began the Canadian use of the

997
00:43:26,779 --> 00:43:24,779
UFO survey in the late 1980s things have

998
00:43:31,130 --> 00:43:26,789
certainly increased fairly steadily

999
00:43:33,319 --> 00:43:31,140
since then now one can point to the the

1000
00:43:35,749 --> 00:43:33,329
wider use of the Internet one can point

1001
00:43:38,989 --> 00:43:35,759
to a number of ways in which people can

1002
00:43:41,089 --> 00:43:38,999
report UFO is now in back in the 80s and

1003
00:43:45,729 --> 00:43:41,099
early 90s or people were limited not

1004
00:43:48,289 --> 00:43:45,739
exclusively but about phone calls and

1005
00:43:51,019 --> 00:43:48,299
telexes and letters and that type of

1006
00:43:53,450 --> 00:43:51,029
thing with the internet becoming so

1007
00:43:55,549 --> 00:43:53,460
widely used back in the 90s in this

1008
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:55,559
blossoming now it's so easy for people

1009
00:43:59,359 --> 00:43:57,450
to report UFO sightings and they are

1010
00:44:02,720 --> 00:43:59,369
reporting them in great numbers to a

1011
00:44:05,779 --> 00:44:02,730
number of UFO websites so that's part of

1012
00:44:08,059 --> 00:44:05,789
it although when you look at the various

1013
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:08,069
sources that we're relying upon that

1014
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:10,319
room seems to remain fairly constant so

1015
00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:13,440
I would have to say that the the UFO

1016
00:44:19,700 --> 00:44:15,630
cases the your sorry the numbers of UFO

1017
00:44:22,339 --> 00:44:19,710
reports themselves are going up it's is

1018
00:44:24,529 --> 00:44:22,349
it that people are seeing more things or

1019
00:44:26,839 --> 00:44:24,539
are they paying more attention I like to

1020
00:44:28,579 --> 00:44:26,849
say that we're living in the Steven

1021
00:44:30,769 --> 00:44:28,589
Spielberg generation or maybe the

1022
00:44:33,019 --> 00:44:30,779
Michael Bay generation I'm not sure it's

1023
00:44:35,569 --> 00:44:33,029
and it what's a later generation but in

1024
00:44:39,710 --> 00:44:35,579
a generation where aliens are a

1025
00:44:41,210 --> 00:44:39,720
commonplace they're widely accepted it's

1026
00:44:43,249 --> 00:44:41,220
assumed that they Lian's are out there

1027
00:44:46,220 --> 00:44:43,259
and would want to visit earth so with

1028
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:46,230
that background now I think people are

1029
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:47,849
spending some time looking up with the

1030
00:44:52,099 --> 00:44:49,609
understanding that maybe some of those

1031
00:44:54,859 --> 00:44:52,109
lights and things moving up there maybe

1032
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,869
aliens and you know I know somebody who

1033
00:44:58,039 --> 00:44:56,160
wants to hear about it because I saw it

1034
00:44:59,779 --> 00:44:58,049
on a website so I'll report it so

1035
00:45:03,229 --> 00:44:59,789
there's a number of factors at work here

1036
00:45:06,970 --> 00:45:03,239
but the reality is that over the past 25

1037
00:45:12,589 --> 00:45:06,980
years we've received and looked at

1038
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:12,599
around 15,000 UFO reports in Canada and

1039
00:45:17,989 --> 00:45:14,970
that's actually more than Project Blue

1040
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:17,999
Book looked at during the its run which

1041
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,650
is quite interesting they looked I think

1042
00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:21,599
their run was about 18 or 19 years I was

1043
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:24,680
25 so it's it's a little bit

1044
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:26,240
but when you look at the fact that they

1045
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:27,680
have the entire resources the United

1046
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:30,010
States Air Force it disposal or as

1047
00:45:36,819 --> 00:45:34,510
ufology research has been largely just a

1048
00:45:38,530 --> 00:45:36,829
consisting of a few investigators here

1049
00:45:40,750 --> 00:45:38,540
and there and dedicated individuals

1050
00:45:42,910 --> 00:45:40,760
who've been spending some time looking

1051
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:42,920
at cases themselves without any monetary

1052
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:47,089
gain or or work resources at all now

1053
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:50,210
let's look at something else now in the

1054
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:53,510
project Bluebook report there were 701

1055
00:45:57,010 --> 00:45:56,240
unexplained cases which was 20 some-odd

1056
00:46:03,130 --> 00:45:57,020
percent

1057
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:03,140
cases that you explored the regard as

1058
00:46:09,309 --> 00:46:07,010
unknowns we had a first pass and I think

1059
00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:09,319
it was something like 13 or 14 percent

1060
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:12,380
unknown so we actually had a little bit

1061
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:16,010
lower than that Blue Book but once we

1062
00:46:20,410 --> 00:46:17,540
actually started looking into those

1063
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:20,420
cases and we spent some time going

1064
00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:22,490
through the matter of fact my colleagues

1065
00:46:27,250 --> 00:46:25,700
Jeff Dittmann and Ashley catcher spent

1066
00:46:29,260 --> 00:46:27,260
some time in my living room going

1067
00:46:31,210 --> 00:46:29,270
through case after case after case of

1068
00:46:32,859 --> 00:46:31,220
all the the high-quality unknowns

1069
00:46:36,339 --> 00:46:32,869
looking for the best of the best of the

1070
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:36,349
best and it was interesting to look

1071
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:37,520
through some of them and being a little

1072
00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:39,530
more discriminating and we brought that

1073
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:41,030
down to somewhere in the neighborhood of

1074
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:43,730
one or two percent now that seems low

1075
00:46:50,260 --> 00:46:45,290
when you consider the project you look

1076
00:46:53,710 --> 00:46:50,270
unknowns were 20% but even the 1% when

1077
00:46:56,589 --> 00:46:53,720
you're looking at 15,000 cases is still

1078
00:46:58,720 --> 00:46:56,599
very very significant and what I when we

1079
00:47:00,190 --> 00:46:58,730
talk about the high quality knowns you

1080
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:00,200
have to remember that these are cases

1081
00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:03,410
that were investigated by civilians so

1082
00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:07,160
in many cases we don't have you know air

1083
00:47:12,910 --> 00:47:10,160
force reports and and analysis and

1084
00:47:15,250 --> 00:47:12,920
discussion between various individuals

1085
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:15,260
and military observations and that type

1086
00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:17,510
of thing but we have cases that may

1087
00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:21,020
contain government investigation RCMP

1088
00:47:26,319 --> 00:47:23,089
investigation investigation by the air

1089
00:47:28,420 --> 00:47:26,329
force cases where there's evidence cases

1090
00:47:29,799 --> 00:47:28,430
where there is a lot of documentation as

1091
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:29,809
to what happened and no questions

1092
00:47:35,950 --> 00:47:32,390
sometimes physical evidence often of

1093
00:47:37,660 --> 00:47:35,960
photographic evidence and so we were

1094
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:37,670
perhaps a little more discriminating

1095
00:47:40,690 --> 00:47:38,480
than

1096
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:40,700
Project Blue Book and yet we still were

1097
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:42,530
left with a very very significant number

1098
00:47:47,590 --> 00:47:44,930
of cases which are a little head

1099
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:47,600
scratching okay looking at these numbers

1100
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:50,480
here now did you get any cooperation at

1101
00:47:55,330 --> 00:47:53,330
all from your air force in putting this

1102
00:48:01,000 --> 00:47:55,340
information together well

1103
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:01,010
III have to say that cooperation is is a

1104
00:48:06,940 --> 00:48:03,590
odd way of putting it but yeah I would

1105
00:48:09,250 --> 00:48:06,950
say that we had we were we had some good

1106
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:09,260
cooperation from the Canadian Armed

1107
00:48:14,290 --> 00:48:11,930
Forces as we did from the Royal Canadian

1108
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:14,300
Mounted Police Transport Canada which is

1109
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,050
a Canadian equivalent of the FAA and a

1110
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:21,440
number of other organizations and the

1111
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:23,450
reason we can say that is because we

1112
00:48:30,430 --> 00:48:26,960
actually do have these reports in fact

1113
00:48:33,070 --> 00:48:30,440
up until about 1995 so as the the study

1114
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:33,080
was running and winding down the Royal

1115
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:36,530
Canadian Mounted Police had a directive

1116
00:48:41,410 --> 00:48:39,260
to investigate UFOs on behalf of the

1117
00:48:42,940 --> 00:48:41,420
Canadian national research council which

1118
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:42,950
would have kind of be the equivalent of

1119
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:45,890
the Smithsonian in the States because

1120
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:48,020
they were trying to locate some

1121
00:48:52,210 --> 00:48:50,240
meteorites and the idea is that a lot of

1122
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:52,220
UFOs in the sky where's nothing more

1123
00:48:57,130 --> 00:48:55,040
than meteors and fireballs and if you

1124
00:48:58,330 --> 00:48:57,140
followed all the witness reports and

1125
00:48:59,950 --> 00:48:58,340
directions and that type of thing you

1126
00:49:02,020 --> 00:48:59,960
may eventually find a meteorite on the

1127
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:02,030
ground which we would be valuable to

1128
00:49:07,210 --> 00:49:04,370
science and that actually happened in a

1129
00:49:09,460 --> 00:49:07,220
couple of cases where witness reports

1130
00:49:11,770 --> 00:49:09,470
were able to allow astronomers to find a

1131
00:49:14,860 --> 00:49:11,780
meteorite on the ground now what

1132
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:14,870
happened was is that in about 1995 ish

1133
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:18,110
or so the individuals in charge of the

1134
00:49:24,570 --> 00:49:20,570
meteoritic in the national search

1135
00:49:27,220 --> 00:49:24,580
council passed away in some cases and

1136
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:27,230
lost funding and just the the entire

1137
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:30,370
Canadian Space Agency changed direction

1138
00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:33,050
so the RCMP were no longer required to

1139
00:49:38,860 --> 00:49:35,660
do that however the reports continued to

1140
00:49:41,020 --> 00:49:38,870
come in because people were used to you

1141
00:49:45,340 --> 00:49:41,030
know reporting UFOs to RCMP and Air

1142
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:45,350
Force and so forth and I remember

1143
00:49:48,730 --> 00:49:47,210
meeting because my background is in

1144
00:49:51,170 --> 00:49:48,740
astronomy I was at a meeting of

1145
00:49:53,540 --> 00:49:51,180
astronomers in Ottawa

1146
00:49:54,970 --> 00:49:53,550
and I remember meeting with someone from

1147
00:49:57,380 --> 00:49:54,980
the National Research Council

1148
00:49:59,090 --> 00:49:57,390
complaining bitterly about these UFO

1149
00:50:00,530 --> 00:49:59,100
cases coming in and I said well you know

1150
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:00,540
if you want you can always send them to

1151
00:50:04,070 --> 00:50:02,130
me because I I'm interested in what

1152
00:50:06,890 --> 00:50:04,080
people are reporting and maybe we can

1153
00:50:10,580 --> 00:50:06,900
still find some meteorites and it was a

1154
00:50:14,330 --> 00:50:10,590
few years later I think was 2000 when I

1155
00:50:16,850 --> 00:50:14,340
started getting reports that were filed

1156
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:16,860
and and made available to various

1157
00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:18,090
government Canadian government

1158
00:50:25,130 --> 00:50:22,440
organizations and so for you know four

1159
00:50:27,110 --> 00:50:25,140
times after that I sort of became the

1160
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:27,120
Fox Mulder of Canada were actually was

1161
00:50:33,620 --> 00:50:30,090
getting you know reports from Air Force

1162
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:33,630
officers RCMP and so forth and all the

1163
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:38,970
RCMP cases up until 1995 had always been

1164
00:50:43,820 --> 00:50:42,510
made available to Canadian citizens in

1165
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:43,830
other words there was no disclosure

1166
00:50:49,490 --> 00:50:47,040
necessary because the reports that were

1167
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:49,500
filed made their way into the National

1168
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:52,170
Archives which were always available and

1169
00:50:56,660 --> 00:50:53,910
what's happened is that over the past I

1170
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:56,670
guess five six seven eight years the

1171
00:51:02,330 --> 00:50:58,290
National Archives has been digitizing

1172
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:02,340
their collection and all the reports

1173
00:51:09,590 --> 00:51:05,250
since then have been made available as

1174
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:09,600
well so disclosure isn't an issue in in

1175
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:11,130
Canada with regard to these cases

1176
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:14,730
because we have the RCMP rcaf and other

1177
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:18,180
cases that are widely available let's do

1178
00:51:24,050 --> 00:51:20,880
the break here Chris Rutkowski telling

1179
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:24,060
us about 25 years of Canadian UFO

1180
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:27,810
reports some 15,000 cases in all with

1181
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:30,270
Jeanne and Kay Kay Barnes sometimes

1182
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:32,160
known as Chris O'Brien you're in the

1183
00:51:43,580 --> 00:51:41,060
great minds think alike the network for

1184
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:43,590
the independent finding the genesis

1185
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:48,450
communications network GC good people

1186
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:49,980
need help the homeowners association

1187
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:53,520
said we had weeds and fine is $25 we

1188
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:55,290
told them they had the wrong house they

1189
00:51:58,910 --> 00:51:56,640
said if we didn't pay it they'd file a

1190
00:52:00,980 --> 00:51:58,920
lien our attorney demanded photographs

1191
00:52:02,690 --> 00:52:00,990
witnesses and told him if they couldn't

1192
00:52:05,300 --> 00:52:02,700
provide this they must cease and desist

1193
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:05,310
issues solved worry less and live more

1194
00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:07,920
with LS protection calm that's LS

1195
00:52:12,380 --> 00:52:10,140
protection calm or call eight five five

1196
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:12,390
three four zero save that's eight five

1197
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:14,160
five three four zero seven two eight

1198
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:16,410
three results will vary from case to

1199
00:52:18,860 --> 00:52:16,800
case

1200
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,870
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

1201
00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:20,400
wondered why banks dockworkers

1202
00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:22,080
investment advisors won't talk about

1203
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:23,880
gold IRAs they've been available since

1204
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:25,800
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

1205
00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:27,510
industry won't recognize the value of

1206
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:28,920
gold for your retirement

1207
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:30,870
gold has outperformed paper investments

1208
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:32,400
yet no word about IRAs

1209
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:34,050
if you would like to have gold for your

1210
00:52:39,620 --> 00:52:37,770
retirement call 866 to 237 don't get

1211
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:39,630
left behind by rising inflation and low

1212
00:53:30,530 --> 00:52:43,650
returns call 866 to 237 secure your

1213
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:32,510
matter how big or small your business is

1214
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:35,730
we can help email us and advertise @gc

1215
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:38,160
and live.com and an experienced

1216
00:53:41,870 --> 00:53:40,170
advertising executive will help you take

1217
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,880
the first step towards driving more

1218
00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:43,680
customers to your business or website

1219
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:46,740
advertising GC and live.com easy

1220
00:54:03,760 --> 00:53:59,420
welcome back into the para cast the gold

1221
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:03,770
standard of paranormal radio and now

1222
00:54:13,310 --> 00:54:11,760
here's Jane Steinberg all right this is

1223
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:13,320
getting really fascinating here it's

1224
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:15,650
almost like it's the polar opposite in

1225
00:54:20,450 --> 00:54:19,020
Canada of getting copies of reports here

1226
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:20,460
you want to contact the authorities you

1227
00:54:24,830 --> 00:54:22,400
got to get the Freedom of Information

1228
00:54:27,050 --> 00:54:24,840
requests and unfortunately it appears

1229
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:27,060
that the Obama administration is a

1230
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:29,910
little more stringent about that do you

1231
00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:33,960
try to coordinate the big UFO cases you

1232
00:54:38,420 --> 00:54:36,390
explored with possible repercussions in

1233
00:54:40,220 --> 00:54:38,430
this country the problem is that you

1234
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:40,230
know ever since Bluebook finished we

1235
00:54:43,580 --> 00:54:42,420
really don't have access to official

1236
00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:43,590
records the United States and what

1237
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,110
people are seeing and reporting so there

1238
00:54:51,110 --> 00:54:48,720
is a bit of a gap there but if we can

1239
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:51,120
you know look at the Canadian situation

1240
00:54:56,750 --> 00:54:53,210
as a good example of might be happening

1241
00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:56,760
we can probably assume and you're not

1242
00:55:00,050 --> 00:54:58,170
supposed to assume but I think in this

1243
00:55:01,850 --> 00:55:00,060
case you can that in the United States

1244
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:01,860
just as many cases are occurring and

1245
00:55:07,490 --> 00:55:04,650
being reported but we simply don't have

1246
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:07,500
access to all those reports so I think

1247
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,570
there there are a lot of reports that

1248
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:11,760
are floating around out there somewhere

1249
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:13,530
I mean no question that Peter Davenport

1250
00:55:18,140 --> 00:55:16,260
and and MUFON more recently and number

1251
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,150
of other individuals are recording cases

1252
00:55:22,460 --> 00:55:20,640
from the public and we certainly use

1253
00:55:23,810 --> 00:55:22,470
those not in our data for Canada so I

1254
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:23,820
think United States is very well

1255
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:26,250
represented I think the general rule of

1256
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:28,530
thumb that we have is that Canada is

1257
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:30,780
probably 10 percent less than United

1258
00:55:34,310 --> 00:55:32,730
States in terms of numbers of UFO cases

1259
00:55:36,860 --> 00:55:34,320
and that's proven true in a number of

1260
00:55:39,110 --> 00:55:36,870
situations so I'm guessing if we have

1261
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:39,120
15,000 cases over the past 25 years

1262
00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:42,630
there's probably 150 thousand cases the

1263
00:55:47,450 --> 00:55:44,760
United States if not more and that's

1264
00:55:48,650 --> 00:55:47,460
simply going by population predictions

1265
00:55:51,770 --> 00:55:48,660
and things like that

1266
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:51,780
so there's a lot of cases out there and

1267
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:53,760
it is very good that there are

1268
00:55:57,740 --> 00:55:55,290
individuals like Peter Davenport and

1269
00:56:00,500 --> 00:55:57,750
others who are compiling this data so

1270
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:00,510
that they can be used in scientific

1271
00:56:04,970 --> 00:56:02,970
methodology approaches to studying nita

1272
00:56:08,180 --> 00:56:04,980
phenomena are you in touch with NAR

1273
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:08,190
Capital also we've got some cases

1274
00:56:14,059 --> 00:56:10,530
from NAR cap Transport Canada the

1275
00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:14,069
equivalent of FAA as I mentioned does

1276
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:16,710
provide us with information on pilot

1277
00:56:22,339 --> 00:56:19,530
cases from time to time it's not a

1278
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:22,349
smooth transition it's not seamless but

1279
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:25,050
we do get cases reported from airports

1280
00:56:30,020 --> 00:56:28,170
in Canada which automatically go into

1281
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:30,030
our annual Canadian UFO survey so our

1282
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:33,690
annual studies which we accumulated to

1283
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,089
produce a twenty five years study really

1284
00:56:40,430 --> 00:56:38,880
do get a good cross-section of what

1285
00:56:42,530 --> 00:56:40,440
people are reporting not only from the

1286
00:56:44,540 --> 00:56:42,540
lay public but we get cases from pilots

1287
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:44,550
from air traffic controllers from Armed

1288
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:47,130
Forces personnel in some cases from the

1289
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:49,290
Royal Canadian Mounted Police as well so

1290
00:56:54,319 --> 00:56:50,880
we're getting good reports from good

1291
00:56:55,970 --> 00:56:54,329
observers that allows us to say you know

1292
00:56:58,940 --> 00:56:55,980
we really think there is a real

1293
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:58,950
phenomenon that's being observed by so

1294
00:57:02,660 --> 00:57:01,200
many people in Canada there have been

1295
00:57:04,550 --> 00:57:02,670
polls that have been conducted we were

1296
00:57:07,370 --> 00:57:04,560
part of one pull back a number of years

1297
00:57:09,650 --> 00:57:07,380
ago that affirmed 10% of the population

1298
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:09,660
in Canada believe they've seen UFOs

1299
00:57:12,980 --> 00:57:11,520
there have been similar polls in the

1300
00:57:15,710 --> 00:57:12,990
United States do Gallup and a few other

1301
00:57:17,630 --> 00:57:15,720
organizations that you know verify that

1302
00:57:20,089 --> 00:57:17,640
that's ten percent so if you're looking

1303
00:57:23,660 --> 00:57:20,099
at ten percent of the population have

1304
00:57:25,579 --> 00:57:23,670
seen UFOs in Canada alone that's three

1305
00:57:28,609 --> 00:57:25,589
or four million the United States you're

1306
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:28,619
looking at 30 40 50 million there's a

1307
00:57:32,900 --> 00:57:30,690
lot of people out there seeing UFOs and

1308
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:32,910
we simply know don't have records for

1309
00:57:37,849 --> 00:57:35,520
vast majority of them before we get more

1310
00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:37,859
into the nuts and bolts obviously only a

1311
00:57:42,829 --> 00:57:40,470
fraction of the people who see UFOs ever

1312
00:57:44,329 --> 00:57:42,839
bother to report them and I understand a

1313
00:57:47,329 --> 00:57:44,339
reluctance say on the part of airline

1314
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:47,339
pilots where they might not want their

1315
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:50,010
reputations tarnished by reporting these

1316
00:57:53,870 --> 00:57:52,290
things but how do we encourage regular

1317
00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:53,880
people to report what they've seen

1318
00:57:59,809 --> 00:57:56,310
that's a good question I think it's a

1319
00:58:03,230 --> 00:57:59,819
matter of public education I know up in

1320
00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:03,240
here in Canada astronomy has almost

1321
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:06,420
vanished from the middle school and high

1322
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:08,640
school curriculum there's so many other

1323
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:10,260
issues that are considered more

1324
00:58:15,319 --> 00:58:12,690
important so it's even tougher dedicated

1325
00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:15,329
teachers to get astronomy let alone UFOs

1326
00:58:19,460 --> 00:58:17,369
included into an a curriculum there are

1327
00:58:21,530 --> 00:58:19,470
a few cases where that's an exception

1328
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:21,540
but in the United States

1329
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:24,090
around the world ufology and and the

1330
00:58:28,430 --> 00:58:27,090
UFOs the facts about UFOs is something

1331
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:28,440
that's hard to get across so I think

1332
00:58:32,810 --> 00:58:30,720
certainly public education programs

1333
00:58:35,150 --> 00:58:32,820
certainly podcasts like yours certainly

1334
00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:35,160
getting some media attention through

1335
00:58:39,650 --> 00:58:38,070
annual studies will certainly contribute

1336
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:39,660
to this and I guess we have to mention

1337
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:43,050
the the TV shows at one point that raise

1338
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:44,730
people's awareness not necessarily

1339
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:46,380
providing facts but they certainly real

1340
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,690
raise people's awareness and I hope that

1341
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:50,640
people you know engage in some lively

1342
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:52,170
discussion after watching some of the

1343
00:58:55,580 --> 00:58:53,210
shows that are being produced

1344
00:58:57,470 --> 00:58:55,590
unfortunately some of those shows have

1345
00:59:00,950 --> 00:58:57,480
less than stellar reputations for

1346
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:00,960
factual accuracy do you think that's a

1347
00:59:04,490 --> 00:59:02,730
mixed bag that people get a false

1348
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:04,500
impression of what the subject is all

1349
00:59:08,780 --> 00:59:06,810
about because of what they see or is the

1350
00:59:10,580 --> 00:59:08,790
fact that they're just aware that things

1351
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:10,590
are going on sufficient to have them

1352
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:12,450
report well there's no question that

1353
00:59:17,420 --> 00:59:14,910
there's issues of accuracy there's

1354
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:17,430
issues of the way in which their data is

1355
00:59:21,470 --> 00:59:19,530
presented I mean Kern Collins caught me

1356
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:21,480
on an interesting one where I was quoted

1357
00:59:26,540 --> 00:59:24,000
for the Close Encounters TV show I was

1358
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:26,550
asked to comment on the cash Landrum

1359
00:59:31,460 --> 00:59:29,130
case and somewhere in my reading of so

1360
00:59:33,140 --> 00:59:31,470
many cases over the years I had thought

1361
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:33,150
I'd heard something about lightning

1362
00:59:37,010 --> 00:59:34,890
bolts or energy bolts or something like

1363
00:59:38,450 --> 00:59:37,020
that emanating from the craft in

1364
00:59:39,890 --> 00:59:38,460
addition of the heat waves which was

1365
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:39,900
apparently wrong so there's little facts

1366
00:59:44,690 --> 00:59:42,330
like that that creep into cases and

1367
00:59:46,220 --> 00:59:44,700
become part of the UFO milieu you know I

1368
00:59:48,530 --> 00:59:46,230
bet you the skeptics jumped all over

1369
00:59:51,740 --> 00:59:48,540
that oh yeah absolutely yeah you can't

1370
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,750
you can't trust us at all to me the the

1371
00:59:55,420 --> 00:59:53,520
issue in the cash Lander case for

1372
00:59:57,860 --> 00:59:55,430
example is well did it happen at all

1373
01:00:00,500 --> 00:59:57,870
what about the medical effects what

1374
01:00:02,690 --> 01:00:00,510
about the you know the site itself where

1375
01:00:04,940 --> 01:00:02,700
their helicopters flying in the air the

1376
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:04,950
lawsuit that was launched against the

1377
01:00:09,860 --> 01:00:07,170
United States by the individuals

1378
01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:09,870
involved they replaced that whole

1379
01:00:13,730 --> 01:00:11,310
section of road where the event

1380
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:13,740
allegedly occurred yeah there's so many

1381
01:00:17,420 --> 01:00:16,050
issues involved in there that that you

1382
01:00:20,060 --> 01:00:17,430
know again you're throwing the baby out

1383
01:00:22,820 --> 01:00:20,070
with the bathwater by pointing and had a

1384
01:00:25,490 --> 01:00:22,830
few details that you can always look up

1385
01:00:27,380 --> 01:00:25,500
in fact when I was questioned about this

1386
01:00:28,910 --> 01:00:27,390
after the fact I said well you know if

1387
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:28,920
you look up the details of the case and

1388
01:00:32,180 --> 01:00:30,210
there's a number of very good accounts

1389
01:00:34,070 --> 01:00:32,190
of the case you can see that there's a

1390
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:34,080
lot more to the case than what we we've

1391
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:35,280
simply covered in a

1392
01:00:40,130 --> 01:00:37,260
in a five-minute segment on television

1393
01:00:42,110 --> 01:00:40,140
so yes I think that there are some very

1394
01:00:43,370 --> 01:00:42,120
important ways in which we can

1395
01:00:46,010 --> 01:00:43,380
communicate to the public through

1396
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:46,020
television yes a lot of the TV shows are

1397
01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:47,970
wanting because they're really

1398
01:00:52,970 --> 01:00:49,740
entertainment rather than anything else

1399
01:00:56,090 --> 01:00:52,980
I know that I'm part of the 701 movie

1400
01:00:59,120 --> 01:00:56,100
that's in the works right now Close

1401
01:01:01,310 --> 01:00:59,130
Encounters second season has been filmed

1402
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:01,320
and I'm part of that as well there's a

1403
01:01:04,670 --> 01:01:03,570
show that's being aired right now in the

1404
01:01:06,590 --> 01:01:04,680
United States for the first time a

1405
01:01:09,010 --> 01:01:06,600
Canadian production called Indians and

1406
01:01:12,430 --> 01:01:09,020
aliens specifically about Aboriginal

1407
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:12,440
sightings and experiences with with UFOs

1408
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:15,090
there's a lot of good stuff out there

1409
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:16,770
but it's like that everywhere on TV I

1410
01:01:21,530 --> 01:01:18,810
mean you can you can watch flock on TV

1411
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:21,540
or you can watch some good stuff try and

1412
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:23,310
read up on it I would hope that people

1413
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:26,160
aren't just uh ingesting all this this

1414
01:01:29,660 --> 01:01:27,570
stuff without thinking about what

1415
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:29,670
they're actually watching unfortunately

1416
01:01:33,980 --> 01:01:31,290
I'm sure that's the case in many

1417
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:33,990
situations right well you mentioned are

1418
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:35,700
the cash Lancome case of course it's

1419
01:01:40,340 --> 01:01:38,250
famous for the physical effects that the

1420
01:01:42,590 --> 01:01:40,350
witnesses experienced actually very

1421
01:01:45,470 --> 01:01:42,600
detrimental physical effects now one of

1422
01:01:48,350 --> 01:01:45,480
the best cases I think that we have from

1423
01:01:51,410 --> 01:01:48,360
anywhere is the famous Stephan Mitchell

1424
01:01:53,450 --> 01:01:51,420
Act case from 1967 and Falcon Lake where

1425
01:01:57,170 --> 01:01:53,460
he had a burn pattern on his clothing

1426
01:01:59,240 --> 01:01:57,180
and on his I think chest wasn't it from

1427
01:02:01,700 --> 01:01:59,250
what he claimed was the UFOs exhaust

1428
01:02:03,890 --> 01:02:01,710
port this question comes from burnt

1429
01:02:06,500 --> 01:02:03,900
State one of our posters at forum dr.

1430
01:02:08,210 --> 01:02:06,510
Perik asked calm and he asked as someone

1431
01:02:10,370 --> 01:02:08,220
who has investigated this story just how

1432
01:02:12,530 --> 01:02:10,380
important do you feel this case is in

1433
01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:12,540
the annals of ufology and why well I

1434
01:02:17,300 --> 01:02:14,460
think it's very very important and it's

1435
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:17,310
probably even though it's been discussed

1436
01:02:21,290 --> 01:02:19,170
and recreated a number of TV shows and

1437
01:02:24,590 --> 01:02:21,300
it's in a couple of books I think it it

1438
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:24,600
hasn't been emphasized enough when you

1439
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:26,370
look at what's involved that we have a

1440
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:28,410
fellow who's a former military officer

1441
01:02:33,110 --> 01:02:31,170
it has an experience I encountering a

1442
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:33,120
you know apparently physical craft

1443
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:35,370
there's physical effects in the

1444
01:02:40,910 --> 01:02:38,030
environment there were pine needles and

1445
01:02:41,930 --> 01:02:40,920
in other tree branches and whatever that

1446
01:02:44,030 --> 01:02:41,940
were burned in the area

1447
01:02:47,570 --> 01:02:44,040
he's physiologically injured he was

1448
01:02:49,220 --> 01:02:47,580
taken to the Mayo Clinic for study but

1449
01:02:50,810 --> 01:02:49,230
there's a lot of other details

1450
01:02:52,490 --> 01:02:50,820
area was actually considered being

1451
01:02:54,830 --> 01:02:52,500
cordoned off by the Canadian government

1452
01:02:57,830 --> 01:02:54,840
because of high-radiation

1453
01:03:00,860 --> 01:02:57,840
in fact there were some nuclear waste

1454
01:03:02,780 --> 01:03:00,870
dumps that were actually investigated to

1455
01:03:04,670 --> 01:03:02,790
see if anybody had broken and taken any

1456
01:03:06,890 --> 01:03:04,680
nuclear waste material out of there to

1457
01:03:09,530 --> 01:03:06,900
see the site that was how serious it was

1458
01:03:11,210 --> 01:03:09,540
taken the case was investigated not only

1459
01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:11,220
by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and

1460
01:03:14,900 --> 01:03:13,380
the Canadian Air Force but also the

1461
01:03:16,970 --> 01:03:14,910
United States Air Force if it is

1462
01:03:19,250 --> 01:03:16,980
included in the Condon report it is

1463
01:03:21,890 --> 01:03:19,260
included in a number of others sites and

1464
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:21,900
sources and what's most fascinating is

1465
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:24,510
that the witness to fan mahalik never

1466
01:03:29,870 --> 01:03:26,910
actually talked in terms of aliens until

1467
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:29,880
his death he thought he had experienced

1468
01:03:34,070 --> 01:03:31,650
her had some encounter with a secret

1469
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:34,080
American space vehicle it was under some

1470
01:03:39,590 --> 01:03:36,210
sort of test that went awry Chris

1471
01:03:47,660 --> 01:03:39,600
Bukowski joins Jean and Chris O'Brien or

1472
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:47,670
KK you're in the para cast first game

1473
01:03:51,170 --> 01:03:49,170
attack of the rockets and it was a

1474
01:03:53,150 --> 01:03:51,180
critically acclaimed success and now

1475
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:53,160
there is the coming of the protectors a

1476
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:55,260
former military intelligence man is

1477
01:03:59,360 --> 01:03:57,570
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1478
01:04:01,790 --> 01:03:59,370
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1479
01:04:03,500 --> 01:04:01,800
because evil forces on our distant

1480
01:04:06,170 --> 01:04:03,510
planet are planning to conquer the earth

1481
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:06,180
this is gripping science fiction of the

1482
01:04:10,850 --> 01:04:08,970
classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

1483
01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:10,860
the coming of the protectors find out

1484
01:04:17,150 --> 01:04:12,630
more at Rocko it's calm

1485
01:04:19,850 --> 01:04:17,160
that's Rockets are Ock oids calm do you

1486
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:19,860
need a website well you can get a great

1487
01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:22,290
deal on hosting services with namecheap

1488
01:04:27,230 --> 01:04:25,110
s-- legendary coupon code they're

1489
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:27,240
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1490
01:04:32,330 --> 01:04:29,490
on shared hosting business hosting VPS

1491
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:32,340
hosting reseller hosting and even

1492
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:35,010
dedicated servers Namecheap is preferred

1493
01:04:41,060 --> 01:04:37,410
by millions it's backed by a money-back

1494
01:04:43,220 --> 01:04:41,070
guarantee use the coupon code legendary

1495
01:04:46,820 --> 01:04:43,230
to cash in on the special deal at

1496
01:04:48,380 --> 01:04:46,830
namecheap.com namecheap.com making the

1497
01:04:50,210 --> 01:04:48,390
right decisions is a challenge to

1498
01:04:52,310 --> 01:04:50,220
investors are we going to see economic

1499
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:52,320
growth slide into a recession or at

1500
01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:54,240
worst depression hi Ted Anderson

1501
01:04:58,610 --> 01:04:56,400
fremitus resources we all know when a

1502
01:05:00,290 --> 01:04:58,620
company actually responsibly divesting

1503
01:05:02,330 --> 01:05:00,300
ourselves and a move towards safety is

1504
01:05:02,990 --> 01:05:02,340
prudent when the market becomes volatile

1505
01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:03,000
us

1506
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:05,070
Jews are a safe haven but what do you do

1507
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:06,930
when the US government over extends

1508
01:05:11,090 --> 01:05:09,330
itself and spends beyond its means many

1509
01:05:12,860 --> 01:05:11,100
investors are turning toward gold is a

1510
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:12,870
common-sense alternative to traditional

1511
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:15,570
paper investments Midas resources has

1512
01:05:19,670 --> 01:05:17,400
put together a powerful book titled ten

1513
01:05:21,890 --> 01:05:19,680
reasons to own gold discussing costs

1514
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:21,900
benefits risks featuring full-color

1515
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:23,970
illustrations weights and measures the

1516
01:05:44,330 --> 01:06:10,790
866-750-3197

1517
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:12,650
so not in chemical free but they're

1518
01:06:16,610 --> 01:06:14,850
loaded with flavor and a good source of

1519
01:06:19,340 --> 01:06:16,620
carbs and protein yet low in sodium

1520
01:06:21,770 --> 01:06:19,350
flavors include Italian spicy Mexican

1521
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:21,780
six vegetable and black bean olive go to

1522
01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:24,690
30 day food supply calm or call five

1523
01:06:30,470 --> 01:06:27,510
four one two two nine zero zero one zero

1524
01:06:32,180 --> 01:06:30,480
and order today eat them every day take

1525
01:06:32,900 --> 01:06:32,190
them camping or save them for an

1526
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:32,910
emergency

1527
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:35,220
check them out at 30-day food supply

1528
01:06:40,670 --> 01:06:37,650
comm and click on the vegan burger icon

1529
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:40,680
that's 30 day food supply calm where all

1530
01:06:45,770 --> 01:06:42,570
of our products are produced in Oregon

1531
01:06:51,380 --> 01:06:45,780
by Oregon Trail foods 30-day food supply

1532
01:06:53,180 --> 01:06:51,390
calm this alert just came in this

1533
01:06:54,980 --> 01:06:53,190
special announcement is for business

1534
01:06:57,260 --> 01:06:54,990
owners and leaders of organizations

1535
01:07:00,020 --> 01:06:57,270
who've been waiting for the right time

1536
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:00,030
to build general steel has made it

1537
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:01,770
impossible to wait any longer with

1538
01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:03,690
rock-bottom prices that could save you

1539
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:05,880
thousands that's right general steel

1540
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:07,920
America's leader in pre engineered

1541
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:09,930
structures is offering buildings at

1542
01:07:14,770 --> 01:07:12,090
prices you will never see again don't

1543
01:07:15,900 --> 01:07:14,780
miss these prices of 50 by 100 for

1544
01:07:17,819 --> 01:07:15,910
$35,000

1545
01:07:20,579 --> 01:07:17,829
you heard right that's 5000 square feet

1546
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,589
for $35,000 manufacturers if you need a

1547
01:07:24,180 --> 01:07:22,480
larger building try a 100 by 100

1548
01:07:26,039 --> 01:07:24,190
commercial building for a hundred and

1549
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:26,049
twenty nine thousand you can't afford to

1550
01:07:30,270 --> 01:07:28,240
rent with these prices imagine a 70 by

1551
01:07:32,250 --> 01:07:30,280
100 foot church building for under sixty

1552
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:32,260
nine thousand dollars with the economy

1553
01:07:36,329 --> 01:07:34,210
improving and interest rate still at

1554
01:07:39,210 --> 01:07:36,339
historic lows you can't afford to wait

1555
01:07:41,849 --> 01:07:39,220
so call eight six six ninety one steel

1556
01:07:44,730 --> 01:07:41,859
lock in your price now call eight six

1557
01:07:47,010 --> 01:07:44,740
six ninety one steel that's eight six

1558
01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:47,020
six nine one seven eighty three

1559
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:51,910
thirty-five we'd like to hear from you

1560
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:54,130
if you have a comment or question about

1561
01:08:00,599 --> 01:07:57,280
the para cast sent it to news at the

1562
01:08:03,450 --> 01:08:00,609
para cast com that's news at the para

1563
01:08:06,150 --> 01:08:03,460
cast calm and don't forget to visit our

1564
01:08:11,099 --> 01:08:06,160
famous para cast community forums at

1565
01:08:14,010 --> 01:08:11,109
forum dot the para cast calm Chris

1566
01:08:15,809 --> 01:08:14,020
rutkowski is with us so when we broke he

1567
01:08:19,050 --> 01:08:15,819
was mentioning the fact that the witness

1568
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:19,060
thought of it as maybe a test aircraft

1569
01:08:22,740 --> 01:08:20,650
it doesn't matter what they think it's

1570
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:22,750
what happened that counts right now yeah

1571
01:08:27,209 --> 01:08:24,850
absolutely and you know we have you know

1572
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:27,219
the witness was available for interviews

1573
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:29,650
over and over and over again the site

1574
01:08:33,390 --> 01:08:31,839
was accessible as a matter of fact it's

1575
01:08:35,669 --> 01:08:33,400
not quite the end of the summer yet if

1576
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:35,679
if anybody in a in the United States

1577
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:38,080
want to come up to Canada they actually

1578
01:08:42,030 --> 01:08:41,290
have a horseback tour of the area where

1579
01:08:44,249 --> 01:08:42,040
this occurred

1580
01:08:47,459 --> 01:08:44,259
well they'll take you on a packhorse a

1581
01:08:49,740 --> 01:08:47,469
tour up into the wilderness and guide

1582
01:08:51,599 --> 01:08:49,750
you and tell you what happened to Mister

1583
01:08:53,309 --> 01:08:51,609
mahalik back in 1967

1584
01:08:54,809 --> 01:08:53,319
there's t-shirts available as I suppose

1585
01:08:57,380 --> 01:08:54,819
it's kind of Canada's Roswell in a

1586
01:09:00,900 --> 01:08:57,390
certain way and the other factor is that

1587
01:09:02,729 --> 01:09:00,910
we have documents and from the ID state

1588
01:09:05,130 --> 01:09:02,739
from the actually from the United States

1589
01:09:07,740 --> 01:09:05,140
servers but from the Royal Canadian Air

1590
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:07,750
Force Canadian forces at the time we

1591
01:09:13,169 --> 01:09:11,290
have the reports from the RCMP and I'm

1592
01:09:14,849 --> 01:09:13,179
talking not just a few documents we're

1593
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:14,859
looking at hundreds of pages of

1594
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:17,410
documents which are available about this

1595
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:19,810
instance and there really aren't very

1596
01:09:25,860 --> 01:09:23,290
many cases in UFO literature that are so

1597
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:25,870
well documented I mean an available

1598
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:27,730
witness a site that's accessible plus

1599
01:09:31,229 --> 01:09:29,440
official documents

1600
01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:31,239
that's that's really quite remarkable

1601
01:09:34,829 --> 01:09:33,430
and I think it's something that really

1602
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:34,839
deserves a little more attention than

1603
01:09:38,939 --> 01:09:36,730
it's getting what did the Condon

1604
01:09:41,459 --> 01:09:38,949
committee conclude about that case the

1605
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:41,469
Condon committee actually listed the

1606
01:09:47,130 --> 01:09:45,520
case as unexplained in its index and I

1607
01:09:49,349 --> 01:09:47,140
think this was the case that that

1608
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:49,359
suggested along the lines of I have to

1609
01:09:52,349 --> 01:09:50,890
have to look up the quote but I think it

1610
01:09:54,150 --> 01:09:52,359
was one where they said that if the case

1611
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:54,160
is proven correct we definitely proved

1612
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:56,320
the existence of unidentified flying

1613
01:10:01,500 --> 01:09:58,719
objects in our environment which would

1614
01:10:03,810 --> 01:10:01,510
be an understatement to say the least on

1615
01:10:07,260 --> 01:10:03,820
the other hand I know that Roy Craig

1616
01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:07,270
believed that it was a hoax based on the

1617
01:10:14,850 --> 01:10:10,719
fact that the site was not found when

1618
01:10:17,459 --> 01:10:14,860
the military and RCMP officers took mr.

1619
01:10:19,250 --> 01:10:17,469
mahalik back out to the area they've

1620
01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:19,260
talked around in the wilderness for

1621
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:21,640
quite a while apparently but he was

1622
01:10:26,340 --> 01:10:24,250
disoriented couldn't find the site and

1623
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:26,350
when the site was actually found

1624
01:10:32,910 --> 01:10:29,110
sometime later he didn't report to them

1625
01:10:34,140 --> 01:10:32,920
he reported actually to a local UFO

1626
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:34,150
group who went out there and looked at

1627
01:10:38,729 --> 01:10:35,890
it with them and that immediately led

1628
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:38,739
some suspicion that perhaps you know he

1629
01:10:45,209 --> 01:10:41,650
had made up the entire thing in fact

1630
01:10:48,090 --> 01:10:45,219
when I was involved in a reinvestigation

1631
01:10:49,860 --> 01:10:48,100
of the case back in the 1970s I was

1632
01:10:52,860 --> 01:10:49,870
speaking with a nuclear physicist who

1633
01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:52,870
was of the opinion that mr. mahalik had

1634
01:10:58,350 --> 01:10:54,910
actually fallen on a barbeque grill

1635
01:11:00,030 --> 01:10:58,360
that's how he burned himself and the

1636
01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:00,040
radiation was explained by the fact that

1637
01:11:06,300 --> 01:11:02,800
for some reason he was trying to create

1638
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:06,310
his own nuclear bomb by banging rocks of

1639
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:09,610
the pitchblende or uranium together it

1640
01:11:14,490 --> 01:11:12,850
was such a preposterous idea it's that I

1641
01:11:16,290 --> 01:11:14,500
found it hard to believe that someone

1642
01:11:17,700 --> 01:11:16,300
actually came up with that as it was an

1643
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:17,710
inner physicist it was actually quite

1644
01:11:21,090 --> 01:11:19,290
interesting in fact the barbecue

1645
01:11:24,330 --> 01:11:21,100
explanation was the one that really

1646
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:24,340
threw me because the marks on holux body

1647
01:11:29,189 --> 01:11:27,250
if you just imagine a barbecue grill you

1648
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:29,199
know there's the you know the the the

1649
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:30,730
lines in one direction and the lines on

1650
01:11:35,729 --> 01:11:32,890
the other direction the marks on the

1651
01:11:37,290 --> 01:11:35,739
holux body were actually round dots so

1652
01:11:39,390 --> 01:11:37,300
in other words the opposite of a

1653
01:11:41,970 --> 01:11:39,400
barbecue grill well it may have been a

1654
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:41,980
test barbecue grill a test barbecue

1655
01:11:44,940 --> 01:11:43,330
grill right yeah

1656
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:44,950
so a lot of explanations have been

1657
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:48,400
postulated for this case I mean one of

1658
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:50,410
my reports on it I say okay if it's a

1659
01:11:55,830 --> 01:11:53,410
hoax I mean the fact that so many man

1660
01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:55,840
hours were spent looking for it I would

1661
01:11:59,880 --> 01:11:57,970
be surprised if the Canadian government

1662
01:12:01,860 --> 01:11:59,890
you know wouldn't have just charged this

1663
01:12:03,630 --> 01:12:01,870
guy because I mean you're when you're

1664
01:12:05,610 --> 01:12:03,640
talking radiation and the possibility of

1665
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:05,620
breaking into a nuclear waste site and

1666
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:08,530
and going on from there well why

1667
01:12:13,530 --> 01:12:10,330
wouldn't it be taken more seriously than

1668
01:12:15,740 --> 01:12:13,540
it was so I I don't think it was a hoax

1669
01:12:19,530 --> 01:12:15,750
I had the opportunity oddly enough of

1670
01:12:22,740 --> 01:12:19,540
knowing the mahalik family as a child

1671
01:12:24,510 --> 01:12:22,750
because mice I used to play you know

1672
01:12:27,090 --> 01:12:24,520
riding my bikes and and stuff like that

1673
01:12:29,550 --> 01:12:27,100
with one of his sons and so I I knew the

1674
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:29,560
family quite well and you know they were

1675
01:12:34,710 --> 01:12:31,570
very sincere they had no reason

1676
01:12:36,660 --> 01:12:34,720
whatsoever to make the story up they did

1677
01:12:38,070 --> 01:12:36,670
not seek publicity in fact they tried to

1678
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:38,080
avoid publicity because they were

1679
01:12:42,780 --> 01:12:40,570
bombarded with so much back in the 1960s

1680
01:12:45,540 --> 01:12:42,790
I don't think it was a hoax now is it a

1681
01:12:47,820 --> 01:12:45,550
possible fabrication after the fact

1682
01:12:49,950 --> 01:12:47,830
that's one thing that's been proposed

1683
01:12:54,030 --> 01:12:49,960
because there was radioactive pieces of

1684
01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:54,040
silver found in a crack in the rock over

1685
01:12:59,310 --> 01:12:55,450
which this object was supposed to have

1686
01:13:01,470 --> 01:12:59,320
been hovering the radioactive silver was

1687
01:13:03,390 --> 01:13:01,480
very unusual you know one would not

1688
01:13:05,310 --> 01:13:03,400
expect that anyway what's gonna happen a

1689
01:13:08,190 --> 01:13:05,320
spaceship is gonna leak radioactive

1690
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:08,200
silver or something very very strange

1691
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:10,690
it's possible that somebody tried to

1692
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:13,840
make the case look even better or you

1693
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:16,510
know undermine it along the way so I

1694
01:13:20,510 --> 01:13:18,640
think there's a lot more questions that

1695
01:13:23,610 --> 01:13:20,520
need answering with regard to this case

1696
01:13:25,860 --> 01:13:23,620
dismissing it a hoax as a hoax doesn't

1697
01:13:27,330 --> 01:13:25,870
really explain a lot of the effects and

1698
01:13:30,510 --> 01:13:27,340
answer a lot of the questions that have

1699
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:30,520
arisen since the case became famous or

1700
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:32,530
infamous so I think it remains one of

1701
01:13:36,570 --> 01:13:34,330
the more interesting cases and not only

1702
01:13:39,170 --> 01:13:36,580
in Canada but anywhere in the world lead

1703
01:13:43,290 --> 01:13:39,180
to a question from a fellow Canuck

1704
01:13:45,090 --> 01:13:43,300
randall who runs usi and Calgary has a

1705
01:13:48,060 --> 01:13:45,100
question that he posted at forum dr.

1706
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:48,070
Peric ascom where you can ask our guests

1707
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:50,650
any question you'd like and if we think

1708
01:13:54,860 --> 01:13:52,810
it's worthy we'll read it he's wondering

1709
01:13:56,459 --> 01:13:54,870
if you have any other cases besides

1710
01:13:59,100 --> 01:13:56,469
makalah case

1711
01:14:00,270 --> 01:13:59,110
involves human or animal injury illness

1712
01:14:01,830 --> 01:14:00,280
or death

1713
01:14:03,779 --> 01:14:01,840
that's a good question I'm trying to

1714
01:14:05,580 --> 01:14:03,789
think if there have it I think there

1715
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:05,590
were a few cases I seem to recall there

1716
01:14:13,370 --> 01:14:10,210
was a case in Charles wood Manitoba back

1717
01:14:16,140 --> 01:14:13,380
in the 1960s as well where there were

1718
01:14:18,899 --> 01:14:16,150
some medical effects people were getting

1719
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:18,909
headaches as a cause of some UFOs that

1720
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:22,090
were seen and and on a landing where the

1721
01:14:26,399 --> 01:14:24,010
the actual landing area would gave

1722
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:26,409
people headaches but in terms of

1723
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:29,170
injuries I'm trying to remember of some

1724
01:14:33,540 --> 01:14:31,090
that come to mind in Canada over the

1725
01:14:36,209 --> 01:14:33,550
past number of years nothing's coming to

1726
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:36,219
mind certainly nothing that we would

1727
01:14:42,870 --> 01:14:39,760
have medical records for so I can't

1728
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:42,880
recall any good people at least staying

1729
01:14:50,489 --> 01:14:45,010
away when they're on the ground I hope

1730
01:14:52,169 --> 01:14:50,499
so yep run away run away well we do have

1731
01:14:56,129 --> 01:14:52,179
a bunch of questions here am I gonna

1732
01:14:57,839 --> 01:14:56,139
fire a couple of these at you and one of

1733
01:15:00,719 --> 01:14:57,849
the ones that people are asking about of

1734
01:15:04,290 --> 01:15:00,729
course is the and and one that's been

1735
01:15:09,060 --> 01:15:04,300
you know the bunkers have had some some

1736
01:15:12,930 --> 01:15:09,070
fun with is the the case that I think it

1737
01:15:17,549 --> 01:15:12,940
was Jim Oberg debunked as saying that it

1738
01:15:19,290 --> 01:15:17,559
was re-entry of of a Soviet the second

1739
01:15:23,430 --> 01:15:19,300
stage of a Soviet rocket I believe that

1740
01:15:28,739 --> 01:15:23,440
was up in the Yukon in 1996 if I'm

1741
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:28,749
correct right yeah yeah that's the it's

1742
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:31,840
the one that Jim Oberg said that that

1743
01:15:36,689 --> 01:15:33,610
the witnesses were actually seeing the

1744
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:36,699
second stage reentry of a cosmos 2 3 3 5

1745
01:15:41,069 --> 01:15:38,320
rocket this this question comes from

1746
01:15:47,370 --> 01:15:41,079
burn State yeah it's a very interesting

1747
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:47,380
case and there's I know that Oberg cites

1748
01:15:55,259 --> 01:15:50,800
it the work was actually done by Ted

1749
01:15:58,229 --> 01:15:55,269
Malden were sort of Maldon who's one of

1750
01:15:59,850 --> 01:15:58,239
the people on CSAT who studies satellite

1751
01:16:02,520 --> 01:15:59,860
reentry's and make lists of them and so

1752
01:16:03,959 --> 01:16:02,530
forth in fact I had emails from Ted just

1753
01:16:05,969 --> 01:16:03,969
this morning it's interesting that we're

1754
01:16:07,510 --> 01:16:05,979
getting some you know good dialogue

1755
01:16:09,820 --> 01:16:07,520
going between

1756
01:16:11,470 --> 01:16:09,830
skeptics and ufologists well that would

1757
01:16:13,450 --> 01:16:11,480
be a change and we'll have to cover this

1758
01:16:16,180 --> 01:16:13,460
more in our next segment where you can

1759
01:16:19,870 --> 01:16:16,190
flesh this out reminder go to the para

1760
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cast comm the power cast com sign up for

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secrets of the mysterious Valley it is

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free chris Rutkowski joins us you're in

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the parry cast you're listening to GCN

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1818
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1819
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1821
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number one 855 905 my TV the more cable

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TV rates go up the better digital

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1863
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1864
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call 185 905 my TV 180 55 905 my TV say

1865
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1866
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[Music]

1867
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:08,209
so when you have that inevitable clock

1868
01:21:13,450 --> 01:21:10,290
that computerized clock that says break

1869
01:21:16,939 --> 01:21:13,460
break now or forever hold your peace

1870
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:16,949
Chris Bukowski was formulating his

1871
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:19,770
answer to kaykai's question I had

1872
01:21:25,100 --> 01:21:22,770
stopped it let's continue now sure yeah

1873
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:25,110
the Fox Lake case many people have

1874
01:21:30,590 --> 01:21:26,850
probably seen it now a very large object

1875
01:21:34,370 --> 01:21:30,600
was seen by about 30 witnesses at least

1876
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:34,380
as I moved ponderously over a lake and

1877
01:21:41,270 --> 01:21:38,580
over some mountains it was investigated

1878
01:21:45,260 --> 01:21:41,280
by a very dedicated researcher Martin

1879
01:21:47,689 --> 01:21:45,270
Jacek and he tracked down all the

1880
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:47,699
witnesses themselves who didn't have any

1881
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:49,650
knowledge of each other the case had

1882
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:52,050
actually not been reported in fact this

1883
01:21:58,669 --> 01:21:54,810
particular case was never part of our

1884
01:22:02,560 --> 01:21:58,679
Canadian UFO survey because it occurred

1885
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:02,570
in 1996 in December and it didn't become

1886
01:22:07,100 --> 01:22:05,010
public knowledge it wasn't actually

1887
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:07,110
access accessed by us until well into

1888
01:22:12,169 --> 01:22:09,770
1997 so it wasn't part of the 1996 data

1889
01:22:15,140 --> 01:22:12,179
but it's one of the more interesting

1890
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:15,150
ones ever recorded a lot of people saw a

1891
01:22:22,580 --> 01:22:19,530
large a large object with windows moving

1892
01:22:25,100 --> 01:22:22,590
along other people had seen from one end

1893
01:22:26,629 --> 01:22:25,110
of the lake to the other the time

1894
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:26,639
difference was actually quite

1895
01:22:30,740 --> 01:22:28,320
significant so there was very

1896
01:22:32,379 --> 01:22:30,750
interesting well observed UFO case and

1897
01:22:35,870 --> 01:22:32,389
quite recently

1898
01:22:38,859 --> 01:22:35,880
Ted Molson determined that what was

1899
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:38,869
being seen was actually the reentry of a

1900
01:22:45,890 --> 01:22:42,210
spacecraft and what's curious about that

1901
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:45,900
is it does seem to be visible at the

1902
01:22:50,450 --> 01:22:48,480
exact time that some of the reports were

1903
01:22:53,780 --> 01:22:50,460
occurring the problem that we're having

1904
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:53,790
is that I I'm not convinced that all of

1905
01:22:58,340 --> 01:22:56,639
the observations fit the the explanation

1906
01:23:01,879 --> 01:22:58,350
in fact there's some interesting reports

1907
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:01,889
where there was a couple or two men

1908
01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:04,290
traveling about a kilometer or a mile

1909
01:23:09,470 --> 01:23:07,440
apart and they both saw the object the

1910
01:23:11,149 --> 01:23:09,480
person in the lead we were both driving

1911
01:23:13,939 --> 01:23:11,159
in separate vehicles a person that leads

1912
01:23:16,399 --> 01:23:13,949
stopped his vehicle got out and looked

1913
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:16,409
up and said that this odd

1914
01:23:21,799 --> 01:23:19,050
which he drew as you know a disc-shaped

1915
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:21,809
object with a round light underneath

1916
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:24,570
passed directly over him a person who

1917
01:23:31,729 --> 01:23:27,449
was stopped some distance away was

1918
01:23:34,909 --> 01:23:31,739
looking towards the other vehicle as his

1919
01:23:37,909 --> 01:23:34,919
colleague and saw this large object with

1920
01:23:40,399 --> 01:23:37,919
you know windows or whatever pass over

1921
01:23:44,029 --> 01:23:40,409
the the car ahead of him

1922
01:23:45,709 --> 01:23:44,039
now if this was actually a rien tree of

1923
01:23:48,319 --> 01:23:45,719
a satellite that could not happen

1924
01:23:50,509 --> 01:23:48,329
because the the subject of the the

1925
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:50,519
satellite was reentering very high up in

1926
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:53,610
the atmosphere and we're talking of the

1927
01:23:58,699 --> 01:23:55,650
order of 150 kilometers something like

1928
01:24:00,229 --> 01:23:58,709
that so it's it's quite high possibly

1929
01:24:03,709 --> 01:24:00,239
you know getting down lower to about a

1930
01:24:06,379 --> 01:24:03,719
hundred and this angle a difference

1931
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:06,389
wouldn't work so the argument is that

1932
01:24:11,239 --> 01:24:08,610
these observations where the object is

1933
01:24:13,879 --> 01:24:11,249
passing overhead must be mistaken and

1934
01:24:15,979 --> 01:24:13,889
people's in you know estimate of angles

1935
01:24:17,449 --> 01:24:15,989
are really bad there's actually a couple

1936
01:24:19,129 --> 01:24:17,459
of other people who say that they saw

1937
01:24:22,129 --> 01:24:19,139
the object pass overhead and described

1938
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:22,139
it as a large disc-shaped object as well

1939
01:24:27,949 --> 01:24:25,199
so the skeptics are simply saying that

1940
01:24:29,899 --> 01:24:27,959
the the people's descriptions are wrong

1941
01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:29,909
and what they actually saw with the

1942
01:24:34,310 --> 01:24:31,679
space junk and it's been said from time

1943
01:24:35,959 --> 01:24:34,320
to time that space junk entering the

1944
01:24:38,629 --> 01:24:35,969
atmosphere often looks like a cigar

1945
01:24:41,899 --> 01:24:38,639
shaped object with windows and you know

1946
01:24:44,739 --> 01:24:41,909
that's valid to a certain extent what's

1947
01:24:48,049 --> 01:24:44,749
curious and what's very very new in fact

1948
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:48,059
just over the past few days is that I've

1949
01:24:53,209 --> 01:24:50,090
made available a study that I conducted

1950
01:24:54,859 --> 01:24:53,219
and it's only been available or only

1951
01:24:58,250 --> 01:24:54,869
been possible to do this recently

1952
01:25:00,949 --> 01:24:58,260
because Ted Mullins report on the

1953
01:25:04,069 --> 01:25:00,959
reentry's that were visible and possibly

1954
01:25:07,129 --> 01:25:04,079
identifiable as UFOs has only been

1955
01:25:08,540 --> 01:25:07,139
recently made available and the 25 years

1956
01:25:10,580 --> 01:25:08,550
study that I've done has only even

1957
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:10,590
recently been made available and what I

1958
01:25:15,830 --> 01:25:13,530
did is I push the two together I said

1959
01:25:18,140 --> 01:25:15,840
how many of the cases in the 25 years

1960
01:25:21,199 --> 01:25:18,150
study over the past 25 years quarter

1961
01:25:23,060 --> 01:25:21,209
century are reentry's that are on this

1962
01:25:25,459 --> 01:25:23,070
list of reentry's that should be visible

1963
01:25:28,410 --> 01:25:25,469
over North America now it turns out

1964
01:25:30,630 --> 01:25:28,420
there's I think 14

1965
01:25:32,459 --> 01:25:30,640
that match and sure enough we get

1966
01:25:34,380 --> 01:25:32,469
reports it's very easy in fact we've

1967
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:34,390
made available the data itself on our

1968
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:36,850
website for people to look at and yes

1969
01:25:41,729 --> 01:25:39,850
there are reports of UFOs that were

1970
01:25:45,450 --> 01:25:41,739
filed and reported number of agencies

1971
01:25:47,370 --> 01:25:45,460
not only official agencies like the Air

1972
01:25:50,970 --> 01:25:47,380
Force and so forth but also to civilian

1973
01:25:54,209 --> 01:25:50,980
organizations that match the times of

1974
01:25:57,229 --> 01:25:54,219
the re-entry of certain satellites what

1975
01:25:59,970 --> 01:25:57,239
is most interesting is that people don't

1976
01:26:02,550 --> 01:25:59,980
typically or have had not typically

1977
01:26:07,650 --> 01:26:02,560
reported long cigar-shaped objects with

1978
01:26:10,410 --> 01:26:07,660
windows and what was reported were

1979
01:26:13,530 --> 01:26:10,420
fireballs in fact in most of the cases

1980
01:26:16,620 --> 01:26:13,540
the UFO investigators themselves listed

1981
01:26:19,110 --> 01:26:16,630
the UFOs is having explanations in other

1982
01:26:22,740 --> 01:26:19,120
words IFOS because they sounded like

1983
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:22,750
satellites re-entering so what seems to

1984
01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:26,770
be is that in about 94% of the reports

1985
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:29,830
that matched the reentry's they were not

1986
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:31,210
considered UFOs at all they were

1987
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:32,650
actually considered space junk

1988
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:35,610
re-entering fireballs that type of thing

1989
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:39,690
correctly identifying what they where so

1990
01:26:44,669 --> 01:26:42,610
what I'm suggesting as one

1991
01:26:46,950 --> 01:26:44,679
interpretation is that UFO investigators

1992
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:46,960
and witnesses are actually a lot better

1993
01:26:53,070 --> 01:26:51,370
than widely purported by some of the

1994
01:26:56,100 --> 01:26:53,080
skeptics and debunkers in other words a

1995
01:26:58,740 --> 01:26:56,110
UFO witness who sees the re-entry of a

1996
01:27:01,250 --> 01:26:58,750
satellite or a rocket booster is going

1997
01:27:03,570 --> 01:27:01,260
to report an object that looks like

1998
01:27:05,090 --> 01:27:03,580
reentry of a satellite or a rocket

1999
01:27:08,430 --> 01:27:05,100
booster for the most part so

2000
01:27:11,729 --> 01:27:08,440
descriptions match the facts in that

2001
01:27:14,939 --> 01:27:11,739
case they do so the question is then why

2002
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:14,949
with this particular case in Fox Lake in

2003
01:27:20,220 --> 01:27:18,130
the Yukon in 1996 be so different where

2004
01:27:22,350 --> 01:27:20,230
people were reporting large structured

2005
01:27:24,900 --> 01:27:22,360
objects and not fireballs and a

2006
01:27:27,540 --> 01:27:24,910
reentering satellite to me that's quite

2007
01:27:28,430 --> 01:27:27,550
curious and suggests there's more to it

2008
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:28,440
than meets the eye

2009
01:27:33,540 --> 01:27:31,090
sorry for the pun and literally there

2010
01:27:35,459 --> 01:27:33,550
but it does suggest that there's more to

2011
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:35,469
the case than that and even if it is the

2012
01:27:42,339 --> 01:27:38,410
case that the all the witnesses all 35

2013
01:27:45,219 --> 01:27:42,349
or so of them all saw this particular

2014
01:27:47,379 --> 01:27:45,229
satellite booster re-entering the

2015
01:27:49,330 --> 01:27:47,389
question is why are the interpretation

2016
01:27:51,009 --> 01:27:49,340
so different so I would argue there's

2017
01:27:53,169 --> 01:27:51,019
still much that can be learned from

2018
01:27:55,239 --> 01:27:53,179
studying this particular case and

2019
01:27:57,969 --> 01:27:55,249
dismissing it out of hand probably is

2020
01:27:59,709 --> 01:27:57,979
not warranted right well this brings up

2021
01:28:01,569 --> 01:27:59,719
an interesting point that I've

2022
01:28:05,229 --> 01:28:01,579
encountered from time to time and that

2023
01:28:07,929 --> 01:28:05,239
is witnesses reporting mundane objects

2024
01:28:11,830 --> 01:28:07,939
such as planes in a case or two birds

2025
01:28:14,020 --> 01:28:11,840
that then appear to morph into a classic

2026
01:28:16,750 --> 01:28:14,030
UFO shape and when we come back from our

2027
01:28:18,759 --> 01:28:16,760
break I'd like to get your you know your

2028
01:28:21,310 --> 01:28:18,769
opinion on some of these cases that I'm

2029
01:28:23,049 --> 01:28:21,320
sure you have in your database and what

2030
01:28:27,129 --> 01:28:23,059
could be operative here you know I

2031
01:28:29,379 --> 01:28:27,139
answer that briefly Chris sure until

2032
01:28:32,529 --> 01:28:29,389
after the break right no it's okay we've

2033
01:28:34,899 --> 01:28:32,539
got two minutes okay well there are

2034
01:28:36,549 --> 01:28:34,909
cases where objects changed up here

2035
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:36,559
change shape and appearance there's no

2036
01:28:42,310 --> 01:28:39,530
question of that I know that some of the

2037
01:28:44,349 --> 01:28:42,320
cases that I've looked at were video

2038
01:28:47,139 --> 01:28:44,359
cases and photographic cases where the

2039
01:28:49,989 --> 01:28:47,149
object seemed to change from you know a

2040
01:28:51,939 --> 01:28:49,999
disc shape to two balls next to one

2041
01:28:53,349 --> 01:28:51,949
another back again that type of thing

2042
01:28:55,599 --> 01:28:53,359
and those are certainly optical effects

2043
01:28:57,189 --> 01:28:55,609
but in other cases where people said

2044
01:28:59,739 --> 01:28:57,199
they were seeing birds and then the

2045
01:29:01,599 --> 01:28:59,749
birds suddenly changed into an aircraft

2046
01:29:03,209 --> 01:29:01,609
that zoomed over their heads I really

2047
01:29:05,799 --> 01:29:03,219
don't know what to think of those and

2048
01:29:08,469 --> 01:29:05,809
the problem is that what do you do with

2049
01:29:11,619 --> 01:29:08,479
these really really strange cases that

2050
01:29:15,609 --> 01:29:11,629
that come to you as as UFO data there's

2051
01:29:17,259 --> 01:29:15,619
certainly not standard stars airplanes

2052
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:17,269
helicopters and so forth there's

2053
01:29:22,270 --> 01:29:20,570
something else at work here and I you

2054
01:29:24,219 --> 01:29:22,280
know it just adds to the mystery of

2055
01:29:26,979 --> 01:29:24,229
trying to figure out the entire UFO

2056
01:29:29,139 --> 01:29:26,989
phenomenon and that's why I think we

2057
01:29:31,599 --> 01:29:29,149
have to have some decent investigation

2058
01:29:35,139 --> 01:29:31,609
going on that one of my biggest concerns

2059
01:29:38,889 --> 01:29:35,149
is that most UFO sightings that are

2060
01:29:41,020 --> 01:29:38,899
reported are not investigated and to me

2061
01:29:42,849 --> 01:29:41,030
that's one of the biggest problems and

2062
01:29:45,189 --> 01:29:42,859
you followed you right now all right

2063
01:29:47,770 --> 01:29:45,199
that's a good point there and one we'll

2064
01:29:50,409 --> 01:29:47,780
get ready to break on but first let me

2065
01:29:52,689 --> 01:29:50,419
remind our listeners once again we have

2066
01:29:55,060 --> 01:29:52,699
this great book that Chris O'Brien wrote

2067
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:55,070
a few years back called secrets

2068
01:29:59,379 --> 01:29:57,290
the mysterious Valley there's an eBook

2069
01:30:01,689 --> 01:29:59,389
version and I'll tell you what we're

2070
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:01,699
going to do to Chris's generosity

2071
01:30:06,100 --> 01:30:03,530
I didn't browbeat him to do this folks

2072
01:30:08,470 --> 01:30:06,110
will offer a free copy of the ebook

2073
01:30:12,550 --> 01:30:08,480
version if you subscribe to our weekly

2074
01:30:15,220 --> 01:30:12,560
podcast newsletter go to the para cast

2075
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:15,230
com the para cast com right there above

2076
01:30:18,100 --> 01:30:17,210
the fold there's a link you enter your

2077
01:30:20,530 --> 01:30:18,110
email address

2078
01:30:22,810 --> 01:30:20,540
you sign up you get the newsletter and

2079
01:30:25,899 --> 01:30:22,820
you get the book we have Chris Rutkowski

2080
01:30:33,180 --> 01:30:25,909
joining us with Jean and mr. O'Brien

2081
01:30:33,190 --> 01:30:36,580
[Music]

2082
01:30:41,310 --> 01:30:38,740
not just an alternative to the

2083
01:30:43,900 --> 01:30:41,320
mainstream media we're the premier

2084
01:30:48,370 --> 01:30:43,910
independent talk radio network

2085
01:30:50,500 --> 01:30:48,380
we are G C n so here's what happened I

2086
01:30:53,020 --> 01:30:50,510
was placing an order online the site

2087
01:30:54,730 --> 01:30:53,030
went down it took hours before it

2088
01:30:56,620 --> 01:30:54,740
returned but I'd already placed the

2089
01:30:59,080 --> 01:30:56,630
order with another company if your site

2090
01:31:00,610 --> 01:30:59,090
goes down you could lose business and if

2091
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you have a business or personal site

2092
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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

2093
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2094
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:08,900
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2095
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2097
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2098
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2099
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:20,870
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2100
01:31:24,940 --> 01:31:22,850
there's the coming of the protectors a

2101
01:31:27,250 --> 01:31:24,950
former military intelligence man is

2102
01:31:29,050 --> 01:31:27,260
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2103
01:31:31,480 --> 01:31:29,060
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2104
01:31:33,190 --> 01:31:31,490
because evil forces on our distant

2105
01:31:35,860 --> 01:31:33,200
planet are planning to conquer the earth

2106
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:35,870
this is gripping science fiction of the

2107
01:31:40,390 --> 01:31:38,330
classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

2108
01:31:42,970 --> 01:31:40,400
and the coming of the protectors find

2109
01:31:47,140 --> 01:31:42,980
out more at Rocko it's calm that's rock

2110
01:31:50,230 --> 01:31:47,150
oh it's our Ock oids calm a sudden

2111
01:31:52,660 --> 01:31:50,240
change in the wind the day grows dark as

2112
01:31:55,300 --> 01:31:52,670
ominous clouds move in and lightning

2113
01:31:56,540 --> 01:31:55,310
begins to carve arcs in the sky and you

2114
01:32:00,410 --> 01:31:56,550
realize

2115
01:32:02,510 --> 01:32:00,420
you are not prepared a number of intense

2116
01:32:05,630 --> 01:32:02,520
storms is increasing exponentially in

2117
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:05,640
the u.s. tornadoes hurricanes flooding

2118
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:07,770
and droughts are happening with greater

2119
01:32:11,750 --> 01:32:10,050
magnitude and frequency if you are

2120
01:32:13,700 --> 01:32:11,760
choosing to rely on the government to

2121
01:32:16,190 --> 01:32:13,710
save and no one's coming to help them

2122
01:32:17,870 --> 01:32:16,200
you could be dead wrong the first step

2123
01:32:19,700 --> 01:32:17,880
towards self-reliance in the face of

2124
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2130
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2131
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2132
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2133
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2134
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2135
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2136
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2137
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2138
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2139
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2145
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2146
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2161
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up now at GC and live.com this is leslie

2186
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:54,590
cain and i'm with the coalition for

2187
01:35:00,850 --> 01:34:56,570
freedom of information and you are

2188
01:35:03,340 --> 01:35:00,860
listening to the podcast see the respect

2189
01:35:06,310 --> 01:35:03,350
with which we hold my cost it's not

2190
01:35:08,020 --> 01:35:06,320
Chris or cake hey it's mr. O'Brien right

2191
01:35:09,660 --> 01:35:08,030
he doesn't want to say anything by that

2192
01:35:12,610 --> 01:35:09,670
[Music]

2193
01:35:15,930 --> 01:35:12,620
okay that noise they're at you heard

2194
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:15,940
that's my iphone telling me that a local

2195
01:35:21,459 --> 01:35:19,610
teriyaki dinner type place is offering a

2196
01:35:23,590 --> 01:35:21,469
Thai meal I don't understand that

2197
01:35:25,300 --> 01:35:23,600
Chris Witkowski is joining us we're not

2198
01:35:27,850 --> 01:35:25,310
going to talk about food that's on a

2199
01:35:31,209 --> 01:35:27,860
different show we're talking about UFOs

2200
01:35:33,430 --> 01:35:31,219
UFO cases but I just wanted to bring in

2201
01:35:35,110 --> 01:35:33,440
the comparison moving into the cash

2202
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:35,120
Landrum case obviously not in your

2203
01:35:40,180 --> 01:35:37,760
country do you find that and the older

2204
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:40,190
case where someone suffered nasty

2205
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:42,050
after-effects to be similar in many

2206
01:35:46,300 --> 01:35:44,210
respects or any respects yeah there's no

2207
01:35:48,129 --> 01:35:46,310
question that that there are similarity

2208
01:35:51,459 --> 01:35:48,139
between cash Landrum and the mahalik

2209
01:35:55,810 --> 01:35:51,469
case you know both as seem to be burned

2210
01:35:58,680 --> 01:35:55,820
by a thermal effect of some sort which

2211
01:36:01,060 --> 01:35:58,690
does suggest you know something

2212
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:01,070
mechanical that there is some sort of

2213
01:36:05,890 --> 01:36:03,530
heat that was generated and certainly if

2214
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:05,900
you're close to a you know an exhaust

2215
01:36:09,879 --> 01:36:07,850
from a vehicle of some sort that'll

2216
01:36:11,229 --> 01:36:09,889
certainly be one of the effects there

2217
01:36:13,510 --> 01:36:11,239
have been a number of other cases where

2218
01:36:16,450 --> 01:36:13,520
that's been manifesting so I would say

2219
01:36:17,950 --> 01:36:16,460
that there are some similarities the

2220
01:36:19,030 --> 01:36:17,960
you know for people to look at if

2221
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:19,040
they're looking at these individual

2222
01:36:25,510 --> 01:36:22,850
cases okay now what about Rendlesham

2223
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:25,520
again we have nasty side effects

2224
01:36:31,030 --> 01:36:28,730
they certainly nasty side effects and we

2225
01:36:32,260 --> 01:36:31,040
certainly have a number of theories I

2226
01:36:34,180 --> 01:36:32,270
mean remember the good old lighthouse

2227
01:36:37,450 --> 01:36:34,190
theory that was proposed first of all

2228
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:37,460
and and I goes back to Jenny Randall's

2229
01:36:42,729 --> 01:36:40,610
and others quite a long time ago

2230
01:36:44,170 --> 01:36:42,739
Brenda Butler I think in her book too

2231
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:44,180
had something like that but the reality

2232
01:36:50,950 --> 01:36:48,170
is that something happened just outside

2233
01:36:53,620 --> 01:36:50,960
an air base and there were military

2234
01:36:55,870 --> 01:36:53,630
observers now to me that alone suggests

2235
01:36:58,900 --> 01:36:55,880
that the case should be investigated a

2236
01:37:01,180 --> 01:36:58,910
little bit more thoroughly not only by

2237
01:37:02,890 --> 01:37:01,190
the the military investigators by but by

2238
01:37:06,610 --> 01:37:02,900
civilian investigators because of the

2239
01:37:08,620 --> 01:37:06,620
military and witnesses are available for

2240
01:37:11,050 --> 01:37:08,630
talking with now and there are a number

2241
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:11,060
of different versions that are bobbing

2242
01:37:16,660 --> 01:37:12,890
around like now and there's a lot of

2243
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:16,670
controversy I've read the controversy

2244
01:37:21,070 --> 01:37:18,050
surrounding the latest book that's come

2245
01:37:24,459 --> 01:37:21,080
out it unfortunately all it's doing is

2246
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:24,469
muddying the waters really because it

2247
01:37:27,700 --> 01:37:26,210
calls into question whether the incident

2248
01:37:29,709 --> 01:37:27,710
happened at all it called into question

2249
01:37:32,110 --> 01:37:29,719
one of the witnesses some of the

2250
01:37:35,020 --> 01:37:32,120
witnesses we're making things up it's

2251
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:35,030
getting hard to separate fact from

2252
01:37:39,820 --> 01:37:37,730
fiction and that's too bad because this

2253
01:37:42,490 --> 01:37:39,830
is a very interesting case in the annals

2254
01:37:45,220 --> 01:37:42,500
of ufology another interesting case when

2255
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:45,230
the annals of ufology again is kind of

2256
01:37:52,229 --> 01:37:49,250
outside your 25 year your study and in

2257
01:37:55,060 --> 01:37:52,239
report but it's probably if there is a

2258
01:37:57,729 --> 01:37:55,070
Canadian Roswell in the Michalek case

2259
01:38:01,479 --> 01:37:57,739
isn't it shag harbour would be really

2260
01:38:03,820 --> 01:38:01,489
quite high up on my list of of really

2261
01:38:05,950 --> 01:38:03,830
good well-documented Canadian cases now

2262
01:38:07,420 --> 01:38:05,960
the involvement

2263
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:07,430
you know we've covered the case on

2264
01:38:12,070 --> 01:38:10,010
previous episodes with you but but the

2265
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:12,080
involvement of the military in shag

2266
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:14,690
harbour is particularly intriguing and

2267
01:38:18,820 --> 01:38:17,330
do we see any other parallel cases where

2268
01:38:21,790 --> 01:38:18,830
the military gets involved to the extent

2269
01:38:24,370 --> 01:38:21,800
that they did in this case and do we

2270
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:24,380
have we seen in the other cases where it

2271
01:38:31,430 --> 01:38:27,690
appears the Canadian and American

2272
01:38:34,340 --> 01:38:31,440
defense apparatus um fashion well I

2273
01:38:39,100 --> 01:38:34,350
think there there is and one that comes

2274
01:38:41,810 --> 01:38:39,110
to mind is rivers Manitoba also from

2275
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:41,820
1967 oddly enough the same year of both

2276
01:38:49,310 --> 01:38:45,330
shag harbour and the mahalik case in

2277
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:49,320
Falcon Lake and also in in Manitoba this

2278
01:38:54,170 --> 01:38:51,930
was quite interesting because I found

2279
01:38:56,390 --> 01:38:54,180
the the documents for this case in the

2280
01:38:59,229 --> 01:38:56,400
Canadian National Archives happen on

2281
01:39:01,880 --> 01:38:59,239
August 28th there were six witnesses

2282
01:39:04,280 --> 01:39:01,890
three of them were military personnel

2283
01:39:07,070 --> 01:39:04,290
all stationed at a military base there

2284
01:39:09,620 --> 01:39:07,080
plus there are civilians in fact the two

2285
01:39:11,750 --> 01:39:09,630
the witnesses were military individual

2286
01:39:14,150 --> 01:39:11,760
and his girlfriend and they were

2287
01:39:18,500 --> 01:39:14,160
separated these witnesses were separated

2288
01:39:21,050 --> 01:39:18,510
by by a significant distance and it

2289
01:39:23,810 --> 01:39:21,060
started when two additional witnesses

2290
01:39:25,250 --> 01:39:23,820
started the the case investigation by

2291
01:39:27,530 --> 01:39:25,260
there was an explosion that rattled

2292
01:39:29,060 --> 01:39:27,540
windows and there were vibrations and

2293
01:39:30,979 --> 01:39:29,070
and all this sort of stuff there were

2294
01:39:32,390 --> 01:39:30,989
balls of flame and here's the flame

2295
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:32,400
thing again three that sounds

2296
01:39:37,459 --> 01:39:35,730
reminiscent of cash Landrum it was uh it

2297
01:39:40,280 --> 01:39:37,469
flared up but a number of people saw it

2298
01:39:42,530 --> 01:39:40,290
moving around what's curious is not

2299
01:39:44,330 --> 01:39:42,540
necessarily the report itself and the

2300
01:39:47,810 --> 01:39:44,340
fact that we have military observers and

2301
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:47,820
military witnesses but one thing that's

2302
01:39:54,500 --> 01:39:51,690
that's very weird is that in the reports

2303
01:39:59,360 --> 01:39:54,510
that I was able to find it actually said

2304
01:40:02,360 --> 01:39:59,370
that investigation team was quickly

2305
01:40:05,570 --> 01:40:02,370
assembled and was dispatched to the site

2306
01:40:07,910 --> 01:40:05,580
now this investigation team was

2307
01:40:10,430 --> 01:40:07,920
dispatched from Winnipeg two rivers

2308
01:40:14,930 --> 01:40:10,440
which is about you know three four hours

2309
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:14,940
away and dispatched immediately and this

2310
01:40:19,370 --> 01:40:16,530
is a case where we have evidence that

2311
01:40:20,959 --> 01:40:19,380
there is an actual UFO investigation

2312
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:20,969
team so in other words a Blue Book team

2313
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:22,890
in this this case is actually part of

2314
01:40:31,010 --> 01:40:28,530
Blue Book that the that you know we have

2315
01:40:32,900 --> 01:40:31,020
individuals in the military assembled

2316
01:40:34,700 --> 01:40:32,910
and is like Avengers Assemble let's get

2317
01:40:38,270 --> 01:40:34,710
out right out there and investigate the

2318
01:40:41,510 --> 01:40:38,280
case which is to me quite interesting

2319
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:41,520
because if the UFO phenomenon was not

2320
01:40:47,630 --> 01:40:44,730
taken seriously why would there be a

2321
01:40:50,660 --> 01:40:47,640
team that could be identified and

2322
01:40:53,270 --> 01:40:50,670
assembled and dispatched immediately to

2323
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:53,280
a location where something had been

2324
01:40:58,310 --> 01:40:56,370
experienced now if this is what we know

2325
01:41:01,910 --> 01:40:58,320
happens in Canada it seems completely

2326
01:41:04,940 --> 01:41:01,920
reasonable that a similar team of some

2327
01:41:07,430 --> 01:41:04,950
sort was at work or you know ready to be

2328
01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:07,440
dispatched in the United States so to me

2329
01:41:11,330 --> 01:41:09,330
we have some evidence that the military

2330
01:41:14,540 --> 01:41:11,340
investigation involvement in UFO cases

2331
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:14,550
was very very significant anybody says

2332
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:15,810
that they don't take these cases

2333
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:18,210
seriously I think at least back then

2334
01:41:24,260 --> 01:41:20,370
they did perhaps today it might be

2335
01:41:26,390 --> 01:41:24,270
different but but they really have a

2336
01:41:30,110 --> 01:41:26,400
sense that they did another thing that

2337
01:41:32,870 --> 01:41:30,120
that comes to mind for me personally has

2338
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:32,880
someone that's really dove into the

2339
01:41:37,820 --> 01:41:34,890
unexplained livestock death phenomenon

2340
01:41:41,150 --> 01:41:37,830
is the number of cases that occurred in

2341
01:41:45,140 --> 01:41:41,160
Canada of cattle mutilations during the

2342
01:41:47,780 --> 01:41:45,150
early to mid 80s when the RCMP was very

2343
01:41:50,150 --> 01:41:47,790
active in investigating claims by

2344
01:41:53,270 --> 01:41:50,160
ranchers mostly in Saskatchewan Alberta

2345
01:41:56,570 --> 01:41:53,280
of summon BC some further over in

2346
01:41:58,550 --> 01:41:56,580
Manitoba but but it seems like the the

2347
01:42:01,160 --> 01:41:58,560
authorities there in Canada took these

2348
01:42:03,740 --> 01:42:01,170
cases very seriously now do you have any

2349
01:42:06,460 --> 01:42:03,750
cases that mention UFO sightings in

2350
01:42:09,830 --> 01:42:06,470
conjunction with mutilation reports I

2351
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:09,840
would say not in an in conjunction in

2352
01:42:14,450 --> 01:42:11,850
the cases that I've seen personally I

2353
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:14,460
mean I looked at three mutes myself up

2354
01:42:18,650 --> 01:42:17,520
here in Manitoba there was an interest

2355
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:18,660
and what's curious is that they were

2356
01:42:22,820 --> 01:42:21,210
occurring in the same locations where

2357
01:42:24,470 --> 01:42:22,830
there were UFO was being seen so there

2358
01:42:27,230 --> 01:42:24,480
wasn't a direct connection in terms of

2359
01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:27,240
you know witnesses seeing a UFO and then

2360
01:42:31,070 --> 01:42:29,190
a mute being found the next day in their

2361
01:42:33,820 --> 01:42:31,080
yard or something like that but they're

2362
01:42:37,190 --> 01:42:33,830
occurring in the same general area and

2363
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:37,200
Tommy Roy bland who is one of the early

2364
01:42:43,250 --> 01:42:39,930
investigators of of mutes actually

2365
01:42:46,130 --> 01:42:43,260
prepared a report or the RCMP and

2366
01:42:48,650 --> 01:42:46,140
Calgary on his belief that we're looking

2367
01:42:52,460 --> 01:42:48,660
at some sort of satanic rituals and so

2368
01:42:54,410 --> 01:42:52,470
forth and he was received by the Royal

2369
01:42:55,129 --> 01:42:54,420
Canadian Mounted Police with almost open

2370
01:42:56,750 --> 01:42:55,139
arms I mean they

2371
01:42:58,759 --> 01:42:56,760
they accepted his report they discussed

2372
01:43:00,529 --> 01:42:58,769
if they thanked him for the report

2373
01:43:03,469 --> 01:43:00,539
it wasn't dismissed at all so it was a

2374
01:43:07,250 --> 01:43:03,479
very it was a very good relationship

2375
01:43:11,169 --> 01:43:07,260
that was you know being fostered at that

2376
01:43:14,779 --> 01:43:11,179
time regarding officials and the

2377
01:43:16,699 --> 01:43:14,789
situation and because the in that report

2378
01:43:18,319 --> 01:43:16,709
to I think Tommy actually included a lot

2379
01:43:20,029 --> 01:43:18,329
of UFO cases that were occurring and

2380
01:43:22,819 --> 01:43:20,039
there were some occurring at that time

2381
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:22,829
in Alberta as well that there was this

2382
01:43:31,270 --> 01:43:27,050
relationship that was if not obvious but

2383
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:31,280
certainly something that was notable ah

2384
01:43:37,729 --> 01:43:35,010
you know I miss had just something to

2385
01:43:40,250 --> 01:43:37,739
ask about those cases where injuries

2386
01:43:43,449 --> 01:43:40,260
were reported the ones that we've

2387
01:43:46,639 --> 01:43:43,459
considered the more famous cases any

2388
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:46,649
possibility some or all of them were due

2389
01:43:51,830 --> 01:43:49,050
to experimental aircraft rather than

2390
01:43:53,629 --> 01:43:51,840
some kind of unknown older I think

2391
01:43:57,679 --> 01:43:53,639
there's no question that that they might

2392
01:43:59,419 --> 01:43:57,689
have been in the mahalik case that's

2393
01:44:02,209 --> 01:43:59,429
that's always was something it was

2394
01:44:05,270 --> 01:44:02,219
considered in fact there's an entire

2395
01:44:09,169 --> 01:44:05,280
chapter in Palmer companies' book on

2396
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:09,179
Canadian UFOs where he lays out the the

2397
01:44:14,659 --> 01:44:11,010
case that it was in fact sort of an

2398
01:44:16,969 --> 01:44:14,669
extension of the Avro saucer that was

2399
01:44:20,929 --> 01:44:16,979
being developed that continued to be

2400
01:44:22,879 --> 01:44:20,939
developed and and that there was a test

2401
01:44:27,770 --> 01:44:22,889
vehicle of some sort the problem that I

2402
01:44:32,029 --> 01:44:27,780
have with that is if what was you know

2403
01:44:34,339 --> 01:44:32,039
what ended up burning mr. mahalik was a

2404
01:44:39,709 --> 01:44:34,349
test vehicle of some sort one would

2405
01:44:42,799 --> 01:44:39,719
expect more well no more documentation

2406
01:44:44,299 --> 01:44:42,809
more sightings like you know here we

2407
01:44:46,189 --> 01:44:44,309
have something that was capable of

2408
01:44:50,929 --> 01:44:46,199
vertical takeoff and landing and a

2409
01:44:52,549 --> 01:44:50,939
disc-shaped and yet after 1967 there

2410
01:44:54,709 --> 01:44:52,559
weren't a lot of cases that exactly

2411
01:44:57,189 --> 01:44:54,719
match this description so I don't think

2412
01:44:59,569 --> 01:44:57,199
that we would have seen a single

2413
01:45:02,270 --> 01:44:59,579
prototype like this we would have seen

2414
01:45:04,370 --> 01:45:02,280
some stages maybe you know oval or

2415
01:45:06,739 --> 01:45:04,380
square and then larger and smaller and

2416
01:45:09,430 --> 01:45:06,749
it didn't manifest until much later that

2417
01:45:12,250 --> 01:45:09,440
we you know we began to see some

2418
01:45:13,630 --> 01:45:12,260
drones and things like that let me ask

2419
01:45:15,580 --> 01:45:13,640
you more about that in the next segment

2420
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:15,590
Christiane Kowski is joining us this

2421
01:45:26,610 --> 01:45:19,410
week you're in the para cast

2422
01:45:32,070 --> 01:45:29,880
unseen now calm proud sponsor of GCS

2423
01:45:35,430 --> 01:45:32,080
unseen now some paralleled encryption

2424
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:35,440
tools keep your communication secure G C

2425
01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:38,730
n Denis this is defined as an origin

2426
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:41,170
creation for the beginning Genesis

2427
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:43,210
communications network began with the

2428
01:45:46,470 --> 01:45:44,770
mission of providing you with the kind

2429
01:45:48,780 --> 01:45:46,480
of compelling content you're listening

2430
01:45:50,550 --> 01:45:48,790
to now and it G C and live.com you'll

2431
01:45:52,830 --> 01:45:50,560
find a free archive of our nation's

2432
01:45:55,380 --> 01:45:52,840
history narrated by G C and hosts

2433
01:45:56,700 --> 01:45:55,390
explore chip and passed down to future

2434
01:45:59,130 --> 01:45:56,710
generations

2435
01:46:00,750 --> 01:45:59,140
G C n is the future of talk radio we

2436
01:46:05,100 --> 01:46:00,760
should always strive to learn from our

2437
01:46:08,370 --> 01:46:05,110
past together we are G C in live.com G C

2438
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:08,380
n we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

2439
01:46:12,060 --> 01:46:10,480
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2440
01:46:13,830 --> 01:46:12,070
protect from counterfeit than carding to

2441
01:46:14,370 --> 01:46:13,840
a private bank having a led back at

2442
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:14,380
interest

2443
01:46:17,940 --> 01:46:16,090
forcing taxes to service debt this

2444
01:46:19,410 --> 01:46:17,950
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

2445
01:46:21,030 --> 01:46:19,420
stating a central bank issuing the

2446
01:46:22,170 --> 01:46:21,040
public currency is a greater menace to

2447
01:46:23,910 --> 01:46:22,180
the liberties of the people than a

2448
01:46:25,350 --> 01:46:23,920
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

2449
01:46:27,180 --> 01:46:25,360
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2450
01:46:30,690 --> 01:46:27,190
that explains our monetary system call

2451
01:46:33,900 --> 01:46:30,700
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2452
01:46:46,020 --> 01:46:33,910
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2453
01:46:48,660 --> 01:46:46,030
that's 800 686 to 237 by popular demand

2454
01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:48,670
the freeze-dry guys giant factory

2455
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:51,250
authorized sale has been extended now

2456
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:53,890
through August save 30 to 45 percent on

2457
01:46:57,660 --> 01:46:55,810
number 10 cans of high-quality mountain

2458
01:47:00,180 --> 01:46:57,670
house freeze-dried foods from the freeze

2459
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:00,190
dry guy now is the time to stock up on

2460
01:47:04,170 --> 01:47:02,170
all factory fresh stock of the finest

2461
01:47:06,660 --> 01:47:04,180
best-tasting longest proven shelf-life

2462
01:47:08,430 --> 01:47:06,670
foods in the industry at Giant savings

2463
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:08,440
of thirty to forty five percent but

2464
01:47:12,390 --> 01:47:10,570
hurry supplies are limited so this sale

2465
01:47:14,910 --> 01:47:12,400
is only through the end of August call

2466
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:14,920
eight six six four zero four three six

2467
01:47:19,410 --> 01:47:16,930
six three free shipping to the lower 48

2468
01:47:21,540 --> 01:47:19,420
states click freeze try guide.com or

2469
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:21,550
call eight six six four oh four three

2470
01:47:25,290 --> 01:47:22,570
six six three

2471
01:47:27,270 --> 01:47:25,300
that's freeze dry guide.com hurry the

2472
01:47:28,980 --> 01:47:27,280
giant factory authorized mountain house

2473
01:47:31,020 --> 01:47:28,990
sale with savings of thirty to forty

2474
01:47:33,270 --> 01:47:31,030
five percent is extended through august

2475
01:47:34,440 --> 01:47:33,280
from the freeze dry guy the finest

2476
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:34,450
freeze-dried and dehydrated

2477
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:36,610
foods available anywhere for long-term

2478
01:47:41,370 --> 01:47:44,710
[Music]

2479
01:47:52,750 --> 01:47:48,440
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2480
01:47:56,419 --> 01:47:52,760
standard of paranormal radio and now

2481
01:48:02,209 --> 01:47:56,429
here's Jane Steinberg

2482
01:48:06,109 --> 01:48:02,219
I keep coming back to this issue with

2483
01:48:08,330 --> 01:48:06,119
regard to possible test aircraft and I

2484
01:48:09,620 --> 01:48:08,340
realized these seem to be one-off cases

2485
01:48:12,649 --> 01:48:09,630
the one you're referring to Chris

2486
01:48:15,319 --> 01:48:12,659
rutkowski cash Landrum of course

2487
01:48:17,810 --> 01:48:15,329
Rendlesham and the I thing I would say

2488
01:48:20,449 --> 01:48:17,820
which means nothing is that maybe one

2489
01:48:22,969 --> 01:48:20,459
reason you don't see repetitions is

2490
01:48:25,459 --> 01:48:22,979
because by causing injuries to people

2491
01:48:27,080 --> 01:48:25,469
personal injury which can cause serious

2492
01:48:28,969 --> 01:48:27,090
problems because obviously the

2493
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:28,979
authorities can get sued if nothing else

2494
01:48:32,899 --> 01:48:31,170
and the politicians can get bad

2495
01:48:36,319 --> 01:48:32,909
publicity if nothing else and not get

2496
01:48:38,839 --> 01:48:36,329
reelected that they elected not to

2497
01:48:41,449 --> 01:48:38,849
repeat these experiments because of the

2498
01:48:43,489 --> 01:48:41,459
fact that nasty things happened and that

2499
01:48:46,729 --> 01:48:43,499
might be it that maybe there were other

2500
01:48:49,790 --> 01:48:46,739
experiments that didn't intrude on the

2501
01:48:51,890 --> 01:48:49,800
public space but the ones that did cause

2502
01:48:53,839 --> 01:48:51,900
problems so let's stop that and try

2503
01:48:55,549 --> 01:48:53,849
something different I don't know you

2504
01:48:57,739 --> 01:48:55,559
know it seems though that these cases

2505
01:48:59,929 --> 01:48:57,749
are accidental it's not that like the

2506
01:49:02,810 --> 01:48:59,939
the witnesses are inadvertently targeted

2507
01:49:04,100 --> 01:49:02,820
as being convenient to the actual

2508
01:49:06,169 --> 01:49:04,110
proximity of the crap

2509
01:49:09,859 --> 01:49:06,179
it seems to me and Chris correct me if

2510
01:49:12,500 --> 01:49:09,869
I'm wrong many of these cases are it

2511
01:49:14,149 --> 01:49:12,510
seemed to be a witness stumbling on some

2512
01:49:17,330 --> 01:49:14,159
sort of mechanized device that's

2513
01:49:18,859 --> 01:49:17,340
possibly admitting radiation and even

2514
01:49:21,410 --> 01:49:18,869
sometimes the device seems to be in

2515
01:49:22,910 --> 01:49:21,420
trouble it's not Gina I don't think it's

2516
01:49:24,620 --> 01:49:22,920
it's like these people are being

2517
01:49:25,759 --> 01:49:24,630
targeted I'm not saying they're being

2518
01:49:27,229 --> 01:49:25,769
targeted I'm just saying they were in

2519
01:49:30,410 --> 01:49:27,239
the wrong place at the wrong time but

2520
01:49:33,229 --> 01:49:30,420
the point being here is that it happened

2521
01:49:35,959 --> 01:49:33,239
that people suffered injuries causes a

2522
01:49:38,359 --> 01:49:35,969
lot of complications and look how they

2523
01:49:40,969 --> 01:49:38,369
hide things look how the government kind

2524
01:49:44,359 --> 01:49:40,979
of didn't tell us about the mess of the

2525
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:44,369
VA here in the US until the scandal got

2526
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:45,449
out of proportion

2527
01:49:48,379 --> 01:49:47,010
well it isn't that typical for

2528
01:49:50,540 --> 01:49:48,389
governments you really want to hide the

2529
01:49:51,890 --> 01:49:50,550
bad news so people are getting injured

2530
01:49:53,569 --> 01:49:51,900
maybe there other cases that we don't

2531
01:49:55,729 --> 01:49:53,579
know about where they've got to the

2532
01:49:58,549 --> 01:49:55,739
people in time before there was

2533
01:50:00,859 --> 01:49:58,559
publicity and said hey you know we'll

2534
01:50:03,109 --> 01:50:00,869
take care of your medical care or in

2535
01:50:04,910 --> 01:50:03,119
this case things got out of hand before

2536
01:50:06,500 --> 01:50:04,920
they got to that in fact in the case of

2537
01:50:08,359 --> 01:50:06,510
John burrows they don't want to take

2538
01:50:10,190 --> 01:50:08,369
care of his medical care that's his big

2539
01:50:12,170 --> 01:50:10,200
problem right although we did

2540
01:50:14,120 --> 01:50:12,180
I note about the VA situation that's the

2541
01:50:16,010 --> 01:50:14,130
other point we haven't we don't have

2542
01:50:18,140 --> 01:50:16,020
good documentation and a public

2543
01:50:20,210 --> 01:50:18,150
admission of the UFO situations they

2544
01:50:22,550 --> 01:50:20,220
actually do have these these vehicles or

2545
01:50:24,410 --> 01:50:22,560
something like that and that goes back

2546
01:50:26,510 --> 01:50:24,420
to something Stan Friedman would would

2547
01:50:28,670 --> 01:50:26,520
say about how that you they can keep

2548
01:50:30,770 --> 01:50:28,680
secrets you know the Manhattan Project

2549
01:50:33,530 --> 01:50:30,780
was kept secret for a long long long

2550
01:50:36,830 --> 01:50:33,540
time and there continued to be black

2551
01:50:40,220 --> 01:50:36,840
projects that Congress has you know no

2552
01:50:41,900 --> 01:50:40,230
access to whatsoever so there's a lot of

2553
01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:41,910
Secrets that are out there so with the

2554
01:50:46,220 --> 01:50:44,250
you know is this a case of where there

2555
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:46,230
was something so secret that it'll never

2556
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:48,810
become public or is it a case that you

2557
01:50:52,610 --> 01:50:50,370
know we're just waiting for the right

2558
01:50:54,410 --> 01:50:52,620
opportunity well that raises the bigger

2559
01:50:57,050 --> 01:50:54,420
question here which is back to

2560
01:51:00,230 --> 01:50:57,060
disclosure is it possible the government

2561
01:51:04,130 --> 01:51:00,240
has any government Canadian US Russian

2562
01:51:06,470 --> 01:51:04,140
Chinese India UK guilty knowledge of

2563
01:51:09,350 --> 01:51:06,480
what UFOs really are if they're not test

2564
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:09,360
aircraft if they're not conventional is

2565
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:11,970
that a possibility and if so is that it

2566
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:13,290
that they'll always be able to keep the

2567
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:14,850
secret for as long as it serves their

2568
01:51:19,460 --> 01:51:17,130
purposes well I think that secrets can

2569
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:19,470
be kept permanently I mean I mean things

2570
01:51:24,020 --> 01:51:21,570
do leak out from time to time depending

2571
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:24,030
on how how much you invoke the fear of

2572
01:51:27,620 --> 01:51:26,010
God into some people I mean you only

2573
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:27,630
have to watch house of cards to see how

2574
01:51:33,260 --> 01:51:30,570
well contrived secrets in Washington can

2575
01:51:36,590 --> 01:51:33,270
get and in the case of Roswell I mean

2576
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:36,600
we're talking a long time ago now and

2577
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:39,810
the story has become so confused by

2578
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:42,330
various witnesses by the fact that I'm

2579
01:51:46,940 --> 01:51:45,090
sure the documentation is gone or locked

2580
01:51:49,370 --> 01:51:46,950
away so securely that we're not going to

2581
01:51:51,530 --> 01:51:49,380
open a cigar box by accident when we're

2582
01:51:53,540 --> 01:51:51,540
poking around in somebody's office and

2583
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:53,550
seeing all the the Roswell revelations

2584
01:51:58,400 --> 01:51:55,410
like a story that came out a few years

2585
01:52:01,690 --> 01:51:58,410
ago suggested I would be very surprised

2586
01:52:04,850 --> 01:52:01,700
if something as secret as that could be

2587
01:52:07,190 --> 01:52:04,860
admitted and yet in terms of you know

2588
01:52:08,870 --> 01:52:07,200
alien visitors Phil Plait would be

2589
01:52:11,780 --> 01:52:08,880
shocked to find out that he agrees with

2590
01:52:14,330 --> 01:52:11,790
me on this but I think it's it's very

2591
01:52:17,090 --> 01:52:14,340
likely that aliens coming to visit earth

2592
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:17,100
would be detectable by astronomers you

2593
01:52:20,120 --> 01:52:18,480
know if they're coming in fleets or

2594
01:52:21,770 --> 01:52:20,130
motherships and all that sort of stuff I

2595
01:52:25,069 --> 01:52:21,780
mean that's the premise of

2596
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:25,079
district 9 and and movies like that well

2597
01:52:29,990 --> 01:52:27,119
you know the NRO is keep an eye on

2598
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:30,000
things coming in absolutely you know and

2599
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:32,010
amateur astronomers are probably the

2600
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:33,210
best ones because they're the ones who

2601
01:52:36,279 --> 01:52:34,530
are actually spending time with their

2602
01:52:38,750 --> 01:52:36,289
telescopes every night looking up and

2603
01:52:41,089 --> 01:52:38,760
they have the all-sky cameras in their

2604
01:52:43,819 --> 01:52:41,099
backyards and and things like that and

2605
01:52:46,069 --> 01:52:43,829
so we've a good eye on the sky in that

2606
01:52:48,140 --> 01:52:46,079
regard but at the same time that assumes

2607
01:52:50,779 --> 01:52:48,150
that there's a technology or there isn't

2608
01:52:52,970 --> 01:52:50,789
a technology out there that you know can

2609
01:52:54,500 --> 01:52:52,980
hide themselves from us that I'm not

2610
01:52:56,810 --> 01:52:54,510
convinced that we have all the

2611
01:52:59,479 --> 01:52:56,820
technology figured out quite yet but

2612
01:53:01,100 --> 01:52:59,489
having said that I suspect that will

2613
01:53:03,529 --> 01:53:01,110
we're never going to get to the bottom

2614
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:03,539
of the Roswell thing and that may shock

2615
01:53:08,209 --> 01:53:05,130
people because I'm theoretically on the

2616
01:53:10,459 --> 01:53:08,219
dream dream team and I haven't seen any

2617
01:53:11,779 --> 01:53:10,469
data yet that has come my way that

2618
01:53:13,279 --> 01:53:11,789
proves one thing or another

2619
01:53:19,010 --> 01:53:13,289
that gene and I aren't holding our

2620
01:53:20,479 --> 01:53:19,020
breath excuse me yeah but I haven't seen

2621
01:53:21,770 --> 01:53:20,489
anything coming my way that proves

2622
01:53:23,510 --> 01:53:21,780
anything wondering one way or another

2623
01:53:26,930 --> 01:53:23,520
but I'm I'm willing to take an objective

2624
01:53:29,270 --> 01:53:26,940
look at any evidence so as far as

2625
01:53:30,890 --> 01:53:29,280
Roswell goes I don't know I suspect

2626
01:53:31,189 --> 01:53:30,900
we're never gonna get to the bottom of

2627
01:53:38,479 --> 01:53:31,199
it

2628
01:53:41,660 --> 01:53:38,489
burn bag at some point yeah but you know

2629
01:53:44,779 --> 01:53:41,670
something here if we did retrieve a

2630
01:53:47,359 --> 01:53:44,789
spaceship and a few bodies that itself

2631
01:53:49,700 --> 01:53:47,369
is exposing what happened to more people

2632
01:53:51,260 --> 01:53:49,710
it's not just an academic report of what

2633
01:53:53,209 --> 01:53:51,270
we saw in the sky it's something where

2634
01:53:55,459 --> 01:53:53,219
there's physical evidence that has been

2635
01:53:58,250 --> 01:53:55,469
recovered and the more people get

2636
01:54:00,919 --> 01:53:58,260
involved the more cooks preparing this

2637
01:54:02,419 --> 01:54:00,929
do the more possibility that real stuff

2638
01:54:04,220 --> 01:54:02,429
is gonna lead not just a bunch of

2639
01:54:06,950 --> 01:54:04,230
contradictory stories remembered thirty

2640
01:54:08,660 --> 01:54:06,960
years later absolutely true and that the

2641
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:08,670
problem is in the case of Roswell we're

2642
01:54:13,010 --> 01:54:09,690
looking at something that happened in

2643
01:54:15,020 --> 01:54:13,020
1947 and the original witnesses and the

2644
01:54:16,879 --> 01:54:15,030
families of the original immediate

2645
01:54:19,490 --> 01:54:16,889
families original witnesses have by and

2646
01:54:21,649 --> 01:54:19,500
large passed away so we are looking at

2647
01:54:24,470 --> 01:54:21,659
third hand accounts that we are looking

2648
01:54:26,870 --> 01:54:24,480
at documents and yet if we did have dull

2649
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:26,880
sir or you know one of those bases where

2650
01:54:30,219 --> 01:54:29,010
there's underground aliens and pickle

2651
01:54:32,890 --> 01:54:30,229
jars and

2652
01:54:36,189 --> 01:54:32,900
you know reverse-engineered whatever

2653
01:54:38,500 --> 01:54:36,199
halt hey I like the pickle jar you like

2654
01:54:39,850 --> 01:54:38,510
yeah I would think true that there would

2655
01:54:41,049 --> 01:54:39,860
be somebody who would be blowing the

2656
01:54:42,669 --> 01:54:41,059
whistle and it wouldn't be Edward

2657
01:54:45,339 --> 01:54:42,679
Snowden it would be somebody else with a

2658
01:54:47,229 --> 01:54:45,349
little closer access to it and yet we're

2659
01:54:49,299 --> 01:54:47,239
not seeing that now does that mean that

2660
01:54:52,390 --> 01:54:49,309
after oh yeah we have Anthony Sanchez's

2661
01:54:54,219 --> 01:54:52,400
Colonel X Colonel X that's right yeah we

2662
01:54:56,759 --> 01:54:54,229
do actually that's Tim Beckley's colonel

2663
01:54:59,859 --> 01:54:56,769
B or is it Tim Beckley's commander X

2664
01:55:01,660 --> 01:54:59,869
Iraq yeah I mean there are people coming

2665
01:55:03,729 --> 01:55:01,670
for it I saw the deathbed confession

2666
01:55:05,709 --> 01:55:03,739
that was produced I think last year the

2667
01:55:08,109 --> 01:55:05,719
year before some of those are intriguing

2668
01:55:09,969 --> 01:55:08,119
but they can't be verified and you know

2669
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:09,979
I think it's a problem what do you do

2670
01:55:14,469 --> 01:55:12,530
with cases like that and lock Werfel I

2671
01:55:17,830 --> 01:55:14,479
think would be the term apocryphal

2672
01:55:19,449 --> 01:55:17,840
indeed yes you know one thing that you

2673
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:19,459
know we're kind of skirting around the

2674
01:55:24,370 --> 01:55:22,010
subject again of disclosure one thing

2675
01:55:26,620 --> 01:55:24,380
that I think that Canadian researchers

2676
01:55:29,259 --> 01:55:26,630
and investigators such as yourself have

2677
01:55:31,089 --> 01:55:29,269
in their favor is is more of a sense of

2678
01:55:32,830 --> 01:55:31,099
openness from the government from the

2679
01:55:34,930 --> 01:55:32,840
military from local and regional

2680
01:55:38,799 --> 01:55:34,940
officials there isn't quite the stigma

2681
01:55:40,629 --> 01:55:38,809
it appears in Canada in the media and in

2682
01:55:42,250 --> 01:55:40,639
you know military circles and that sort

2683
01:55:43,839 --> 01:55:42,260
of thing people are I think a little bit

2684
01:55:46,209 --> 01:55:43,849
more circumspect and they seem to be

2685
01:55:48,009 --> 01:55:46,219
more open-minded in official capacities

2686
01:55:49,899 --> 01:55:48,019
up there well would you agree I'd have

2687
01:55:53,109 --> 01:55:49,909
to agree I mean there was actually a

2688
01:55:55,239 --> 01:55:53,119
parliamentary sorry Legislative Assembly

2689
01:55:56,949 --> 01:55:55,249
statement investigation that was

2690
01:55:58,750 --> 01:55:56,959
presented in the government of the

2691
01:56:00,850 --> 01:55:58,760
Northwest Territories or was it the

2692
01:56:02,560 --> 01:56:00,860
Yukon I think was Yukon after all a

2693
01:56:04,299 --> 01:56:02,570
number of years ago when Martin Jacek

2694
01:56:06,129 --> 01:56:04,309
presented his findings on the Yukon case

2695
01:56:08,020 --> 01:56:06,139
it actually was entered into official

2696
01:56:09,549 --> 01:56:08,030
government records we don't find that

2697
01:56:11,620 --> 01:56:09,559
going on in a lot of countries although

2698
01:56:12,489 --> 01:56:11,630
you know a lot of countries today I mean

2699
01:56:14,739 --> 01:56:12,499
I saw the Chile

2700
01:56:16,180 --> 01:56:14,749
no it's just the other day and you know

2701
01:56:18,549 --> 01:56:16,190
we have England and the release of the

2702
01:56:19,989 --> 01:56:18,559
mo D reports and oh there's a lot of

2703
01:56:21,819 --> 01:56:19,999
countries around the world who are

2704
01:56:24,549 --> 01:56:21,829
releasing information and do have

2705
01:56:26,859 --> 01:56:24,559
official investigations you know in

2706
01:56:28,810 --> 01:56:26,869
France you know the the center out there

2707
01:56:30,729 --> 01:56:28,820
is doing a very interesting job of

2708
01:56:33,069 --> 01:56:30,739
collecting cases and both official

2709
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:33,079
capacity and from citizens there are

2710
01:56:35,949 --> 01:56:34,610
some interesting documents that are

2711
01:56:39,129 --> 01:56:35,959
being made available and I think there

2712
01:56:40,629 --> 01:56:39,139
is a general openness as far as Canada

2713
01:56:42,750 --> 01:56:40,639
goes I mean remember that you know we

2714
01:56:43,810 --> 01:56:42,760
wouldn't necessarily have the mj-12

2715
01:56:45,310 --> 01:56:43,820
discussion

2716
01:56:47,050 --> 01:56:45,320
that we would be having now if it wasn't

2717
01:56:49,419 --> 01:56:47,060
for the fact that whoa Burt Smith a

2718
01:56:51,729 --> 01:56:49,429
Canadian reported to his superiors in

2719
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:51,739
Ottawa after a trip down to Washington

2720
01:56:56,260 --> 01:56:54,050
on what his investigations and queries

2721
01:56:58,120 --> 01:56:56,270
about flying saucers where you know back

2722
01:56:59,740 --> 01:56:58,130
in the 50s he found that there was some

2723
01:57:02,169 --> 01:56:59,750
serious discussion going on in

2724
01:57:04,450 --> 01:57:02,179
Washington and while that document in

2725
01:57:06,910 --> 01:57:04,460
which he reported to his superiors about

2726
01:57:09,609 --> 01:57:06,920
the seriousness of UFOs in the United

2727
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:09,619
States was not made public in the United

2728
01:57:13,930 --> 01:57:11,840
States for quite some time it was made

2729
01:57:15,490 --> 01:57:13,940
public in Canada much much earlier so

2730
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:15,500
there always has been a very interesting

2731
01:57:20,530 --> 01:57:17,840
connection between the two countries and

2732
01:57:22,600 --> 01:57:20,540
it's true Canada has been generally open

2733
01:57:25,120 --> 01:57:22,610
I mean even to this day I get reports

2734
01:57:28,030 --> 01:57:25,130
through official channels regarding some

2735
01:57:30,819 --> 01:57:28,040
UFOs so you know that may change Kris

2736
01:57:39,010 --> 01:57:30,829
rutkowski is with us you're in the para

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2763
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as the common sense alternative to a

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2799
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2800
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2801
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2804
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2805
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Foods in the industry had giant savings

2806
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of thirty to forty five percent but

2807
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hurry supplies are limited so this sale

2808
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is only through the end of August call

2809
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2810
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2811
02:01:20,120 --> 02:01:17,790
states click freeze try guy.com

2812
02:01:21,140 --> 02:01:20,130
or call eight six six four oh four three

2813
02:01:23,870 --> 02:01:21,150
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2814
02:01:25,850 --> 02:01:23,880
that's freeze dry guide.com hurry the

2815
02:01:27,560 --> 02:01:25,860
giant factory authorized mountain house

2816
02:01:29,600 --> 02:01:27,570
sale with savings of thirty to forty

2817
02:01:31,850 --> 02:01:29,610
five percent is extended through august

2818
02:01:33,500 --> 02:01:31,860
from the freeze dry guy the finest

2819
02:01:39,010 --> 02:01:33,510
freeze-dried and dehydrated foods

2820
02:01:43,160 --> 02:01:41,270
we'd like to hear from you

2821
02:01:46,430 --> 02:01:43,170
if you have a comment or question about

2822
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:46,440
the para cast sent it to news at the

2823
02:01:52,610 --> 02:01:49,770
para cast com that's news at the para

2824
02:01:55,310 --> 02:01:52,620
cast calm and don't forget to visit our

2825
02:02:00,770 --> 02:01:55,320
famous para cast community forums at

2826
02:02:02,900 --> 02:02:00,780
forum dot the podcast.com of course when

2827
02:02:05,570 --> 02:02:02,910
we talk about Canadian UFO research we

2828
02:02:08,840 --> 02:02:05,580
have one other gentleman whose name

2829
02:02:11,060 --> 02:02:08,850
enters to the picture Chris O'Brien tell

2830
02:02:13,430 --> 02:02:11,070
Chris rutkowski who that is

2831
02:02:16,850 --> 02:02:13,440
well I'm sure Chris a couple of years

2832
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:16,860
back you were interested in in the so

2833
02:02:21,740 --> 02:02:18,330
called Steven Bassett so-called

2834
02:02:23,780 --> 02:02:21,750
disclosure hearings and the very last

2835
02:02:26,270 --> 02:02:23,790
person to get up and address the panel

2836
02:02:29,030 --> 02:02:26,280
was a was a former Minister of Defense

2837
02:02:32,830 --> 02:02:29,040
from Canada Paul Hellyer and what

2838
02:02:36,880 --> 02:02:32,840
stunned me was that he read verbatim a

2839
02:02:40,670 --> 02:02:36,890
transcript allegedly put together by Jim

2840
02:02:44,360 --> 02:02:40,680
sparks a questionable abductee and he'll

2841
02:02:47,180 --> 02:02:44,370
your read what the ETS allegedly had

2842
02:02:50,900 --> 02:02:47,190
told sparks about environmental

2843
02:02:53,100 --> 02:02:50,910
degradation and atomic weapons and all

2844
02:02:54,870 --> 02:02:53,110
these kind of you know cliched phrase

2845
02:02:57,270 --> 02:02:54,880
is that crop up from time to time in the

2846
02:03:00,300 --> 02:02:57,280
abduction in contactee literature what

2847
02:03:03,060 --> 02:03:00,310
is your take on Hellyer and how could

2848
02:03:05,879 --> 02:03:03,070
someone in you know a former capacity

2849
02:03:07,439 --> 02:03:05,889
like that come across so naive if I

2850
02:03:09,689 --> 02:03:07,449
hadn't been working there I mean I would

2851
02:03:11,250 --> 02:03:09,699
have started raising some my voice in

2852
02:03:13,919 --> 02:03:11,260
the audience who is some indignation

2853
02:03:15,330 --> 02:03:13,929
based on what he was saying well where

2854
02:03:17,669 --> 02:03:15,340
do you come down on the hell your

2855
02:03:19,290 --> 02:03:17,679
involvement in all this yeah I remember

2856
02:03:20,910 --> 02:03:19,300
talking with Don Schmitt about this and

2857
02:03:22,919 --> 02:03:20,920
he said as soon as hillier started

2858
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:22,929
speaking he he closed his notebook

2859
02:03:25,919 --> 02:03:24,610
because he figured that that's the the

2860
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:25,929
end of the conference isn't there's no

2861
02:03:30,390 --> 02:03:28,690
point even talking about it yeah it's

2862
02:03:32,490 --> 02:03:30,400
interesting the comments that Heller was

2863
02:03:35,189 --> 02:03:32,500
was phrasing there um Sparks is

2864
02:03:37,649 --> 02:03:35,199
basically the contact D message of the

2865
02:03:40,290 --> 02:03:37,659
1950's notice how we've come full circle

2866
02:03:43,020 --> 02:03:40,300
again in so many ways I have actually

2867
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:43,030
talked with Paul Hellyer and a couple of

2868
02:03:47,790 --> 02:03:45,010
occasions he and I were guest on a

2869
02:03:49,649 --> 02:03:47,800
program up here in Canada I found it

2870
02:03:52,590 --> 02:03:49,659
very nice very uh very pleasant

2871
02:03:54,510 --> 02:03:52,600
gentleman I simply have no idea how he

2872
02:03:56,129 --> 02:03:54,520
could possibly say the things he's doing

2873
02:04:00,419 --> 02:03:56,139
I mean this comments that he was making

2874
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:00,429
about the the aliens and the Las Vegas

2875
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:03,010
bases you know they go into Las Vegas in

2876
02:04:05,879 --> 02:04:04,570
disguise so they can go to the casinos

2877
02:04:08,910 --> 02:04:05,889
and shop and things like that I mean

2878
02:04:10,140 --> 02:04:08,920
it's so ridiculous one could just

2879
02:04:11,580 --> 02:04:10,150
imagine that we're talking about a

2880
02:04:13,410 --> 02:04:11,590
science-fiction program more than

2881
02:04:15,570 --> 02:04:13,420
anything else and yet this person is

2882
02:04:18,330 --> 02:04:15,580
very good credentials in fact his UFO

2883
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:18,340
connection goes back quite far back into

2884
02:04:24,830 --> 02:04:23,170
the into the 1960s he actually gave the

2885
02:04:28,530 --> 02:04:24,840
statement from the Canadian government

2886
02:04:31,919 --> 02:04:28,540
when the UFO landing pad in st. Paul

2887
02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:31,929
Alberta was dedicated he actually opened

2888
02:04:38,550 --> 02:04:34,570
that which was quite interesting because

2889
02:04:41,939 --> 02:04:38,560
at that time which was nineteen this

2890
02:04:45,209 --> 02:04:41,949
also 67 you know people weren't really

2891
02:04:48,510 --> 02:04:45,219
talking in those terms when Hellyer

2892
02:04:50,850 --> 02:04:48,520
often comments about how he hadn't seen

2893
02:04:54,120 --> 02:04:50,860
any UFO good information crossing his

2894
02:04:56,609 --> 02:04:54,130
desk as Minister of Defense I find that

2895
02:04:58,709 --> 02:04:56,619
very hard to believe because I've gone

2896
02:05:00,780 --> 02:04:58,719
looking through the archives for

2897
02:05:05,220 --> 02:05:00,790
documents and there's many documents

2898
02:05:07,080 --> 02:05:05,230
regarding UFOs that are to his attention

2899
02:05:08,570 --> 02:05:07,090
that looked to be that it was brought to

2900
02:05:11,910 --> 02:05:08,580
his attention on some classic cases

2901
02:05:14,250 --> 02:05:11,920
certainly cases like the Falcon Lake

2902
02:05:17,940 --> 02:05:14,260
incident Charles wood and a few others

2903
02:05:19,410 --> 02:05:17,950
took place during his tenure so I find

2904
02:05:21,210 --> 02:05:19,420
it hard to believe how he wouldn't have

2905
02:05:24,570 --> 02:05:21,220
any knowledge of what was really going

2906
02:05:26,490 --> 02:05:24,580
on until he was on a vacation and

2907
02:05:28,710 --> 02:05:26,500
somebody gave him a book you know on

2908
02:05:31,290 --> 02:05:28,720
UFOs that really had some doubts that he

2909
02:05:33,630 --> 02:05:31,300
said he says now that he has

2910
02:05:36,540 --> 02:05:33,640
confirmation of this information about

2911
02:05:40,290 --> 02:05:36,550
the contacting an abductee situation

2912
02:05:42,900 --> 02:05:40,300
through a military friend of his that he

2913
02:05:46,170 --> 02:05:42,910
can't disclose the identity of I just

2914
02:05:49,110 --> 02:05:46,180
find the entire story very very

2915
02:05:52,590 --> 02:05:49,120
unbelievable in fact the damage that his

2916
02:05:55,320 --> 02:05:52,600
comments make to ufology is inestimable

2917
02:05:59,040 --> 02:05:55,330
because it's very very unusual and yet

2918
02:06:00,510 --> 02:05:59,050
he's very pleasant he's a nice man some

2919
02:06:02,670 --> 02:06:00,520
have suggested that perhaps he's a

2920
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:02,680
distant former he's making the the whole

2921
02:06:08,130 --> 02:06:05,050
UFO thing look bad yeah that's what I

2922
02:06:12,570 --> 02:06:08,140
was gonna ask you what you thought it's

2923
02:06:14,100 --> 02:06:12,580
it's certainly possible but I really

2924
02:06:16,650 --> 02:06:14,110
don't know it he's making some

2925
02:06:18,900 --> 02:06:16,660
extraordinary claims that most serious

2926
02:06:19,830 --> 02:06:18,910
ufologists you know wouldn't even touch

2927
02:06:23,280 --> 02:06:19,840
with a ten-foot pole

2928
02:06:25,380 --> 02:06:23,290
so I really don't know I I know that

2929
02:06:27,900 --> 02:06:25,390
there had been some UFO policies that

2930
02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:27,910
were formulated in the 1960s that he

2931
02:06:33,300 --> 02:06:30,130
must have been aware of as Minister of

2932
02:06:35,220 --> 02:06:33,310
Defense I I'm not sure exactly what's

2933
02:06:37,140 --> 02:06:35,230
going on there now I don't want to be

2934
02:06:40,140 --> 02:06:37,150
insulting about it but maybe he's seen

2935
02:06:42,180 --> 02:06:40,150
better years as he gets older he becomes

2936
02:06:44,640 --> 02:06:42,190
more gullible or maybe he's just wants

2937
02:06:47,580 --> 02:06:44,650
to seem relevant by coming out with more

2938
02:06:48,830 --> 02:06:47,590
extreme statements it's possible some

2939
02:06:51,150 --> 02:06:48,840
people have suggested that perhaps

2940
02:06:53,100 --> 02:06:51,160
dementia is setting in and all I can say

2941
02:06:56,790 --> 02:06:53,110
is that when I was sitting next to him

2942
02:06:58,920 --> 02:06:56,800
on a TV program

2943
02:07:01,350 --> 02:06:58,930
he was as sharp as a tack I don't know

2944
02:07:03,510 --> 02:07:01,360
what to say beyond that well I guess you

2945
02:07:06,120 --> 02:07:03,520
can't assume a person who was a little

2946
02:07:07,770 --> 02:07:06,130
bit older it's necessarily losing it I

2947
02:07:10,470 --> 02:07:07,780
mean we had Stanton Friedman on a few

2948
02:07:12,690 --> 02:07:10,480
weeks ago just turned 80 just had a mild

2949
02:07:13,140 --> 02:07:12,700
heart attack and he was as sharp as he

2950
02:07:16,800 --> 02:07:13,150
ever was

2951
02:07:18,379 --> 02:07:16,810
we had Don Berliner somewhat later he's

2952
02:07:19,609 --> 02:07:18,389
84 and you

2953
02:07:23,300 --> 02:07:19,619
can tell when you listen to the show

2954
02:07:25,100 --> 02:07:23,310
this guy is just raring to go and he's

2955
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:25,110
very careful very pointed in his

2956
02:07:32,870 --> 02:07:29,130
comments I don't know so I do not know

2957
02:07:35,720 --> 02:07:32,880
the man I'd not presume to guess why he

2958
02:07:38,030 --> 02:07:35,730
is making statements that are or seem

2959
02:07:38,780 --> 02:07:38,040
less than credible but there you go

2960
02:07:42,229 --> 02:07:38,790
there you go

2961
02:07:44,359 --> 02:07:42,239
what can I say Wofford Smith now he

2962
02:07:46,580 --> 02:07:44,369
evidently was quite close to major

2963
02:07:48,530 --> 02:07:46,590
Donald Kehoe in the early days because

2964
02:07:50,270 --> 02:07:48,540
he was mentioned in his books what's

2965
02:07:51,890 --> 02:07:50,280
your assessment of the information he

2966
02:07:54,410 --> 02:07:51,900
brought forth especially his contacts

2967
02:07:56,899 --> 02:07:54,420
with the US and his efforts to make the

2968
02:07:58,820 --> 02:07:56,909
UFO subject credible in Canada well

2969
02:08:00,740 --> 02:07:58,830
certainly Wilbert Smith you know is

2970
02:08:03,919 --> 02:08:00,750
responsible for a lot of the interesting

2971
02:08:05,540 --> 02:08:03,929
material we have from the 1950s

2972
02:08:08,540 --> 02:08:05,550
grant Cameron has done a great job of

2973
02:08:12,020 --> 02:08:08,550
tracking down Smith he actually spent

2974
02:08:13,660 --> 02:08:12,030
some time with Smith's wife and you'll

2975
02:08:15,890 --> 02:08:13,670
excuse me and some of his other family

2976
02:08:17,060 --> 02:08:15,900
if there's some interesting documents

2977
02:08:20,620 --> 02:08:17,070
that are available

2978
02:08:24,680 --> 02:08:20,630
he was worked in electrical engineering

2979
02:08:25,220 --> 02:08:24,690
he actually managed to create a a flying

2980
02:08:27,500 --> 02:08:25,230
saucer

2981
02:08:31,939 --> 02:08:27,510
I don't know detection station at

2982
02:08:33,410 --> 02:08:31,949
shirley's Bay in Ontario and one of the

2983
02:08:36,200 --> 02:08:33,420
interesting cases and the records of

2984
02:08:37,939 --> 02:08:36,210
Canadia followed you that at one point

2985
02:08:39,560 --> 02:08:37,949
his detection equipment went off

2986
02:08:43,669 --> 02:08:39,570
indicating that something was gonna be

2987
02:08:46,220 --> 02:08:43,679
flying overhead and he recorded this and

2988
02:08:48,410 --> 02:08:46,230
nothing was actually seen but there's

2989
02:08:50,240 --> 02:08:48,420
something very large set off all these

2990
02:08:52,820 --> 02:08:50,250
magnetic an electromagnetic detectors

2991
02:08:55,810 --> 02:08:52,830
that he had set up he also got into some

2992
02:08:59,620 --> 02:08:55,820
pretty strange stuff I mean he treated

2993
02:09:04,160 --> 02:08:59,630
binding meters and and things like that

2994
02:09:06,530 --> 02:09:04,170
for detecting objects in the sky

2995
02:09:08,959 --> 02:09:06,540
none of his work with regard to UFOs was

2996
02:09:10,609 --> 02:09:08,969
endorsed by the by the Canadian

2997
02:09:12,770 --> 02:09:10,619
government this was something that was

2998
02:09:14,149 --> 02:09:12,780
always purported to be in his own time

2999
02:09:15,890 --> 02:09:14,159
because of his interest they let him do

3000
02:09:17,419 --> 02:09:15,900
his own thing because he was quite a

3001
02:09:19,910 --> 02:09:17,429
genius and electrical engineering in

3002
02:09:21,200 --> 02:09:19,920
fact some of his patents still stand

3003
02:09:24,010 --> 02:09:21,210
today for some of the electrical

3004
02:09:27,790 --> 02:09:24,020
equipment that's in use around the world

3005
02:09:30,439 --> 02:09:27,800
and yet he you know claimed contact with

3006
02:09:31,840 --> 02:09:30,449
with aliens more contactee more than

3007
02:09:34,330 --> 02:09:31,850
abductee

3008
02:09:36,000 --> 02:09:34,340
an interesting story and yet you know

3009
02:09:40,300 --> 02:09:36,010
mixed in with all this he was in

3010
02:09:43,260 --> 02:09:40,310
involved in the Canadian UFO projects

3011
02:09:46,810 --> 02:09:43,270
that were an official basis project

3012
02:09:48,370 --> 02:09:46,820
magnet and and second story seem to been

3013
02:09:51,820 --> 02:09:48,380
crowded out of some of the second story

3014
02:09:54,670 --> 02:09:51,830
cases by some of the upper management

3015
02:09:56,380 --> 02:09:54,680
and yet he was instrumental in trying to

3016
02:09:58,540 --> 02:09:56,390
make some sense in fact I think he

3017
02:10:01,300 --> 02:09:58,550
sincerely tried to understand the UFO

3018
02:10:03,370 --> 02:10:01,310
phenomenon in terms of physical craft

3019
02:10:06,220 --> 02:10:03,380
and trying to understand understand

3020
02:10:08,380 --> 02:10:06,230
magnetic lines of force perhaps the

3021
02:10:10,120 --> 02:10:08,390
crafts are flying you know through the

3022
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:10,130
atmosphere following magnetic lines of

3023
02:10:15,880 --> 02:10:12,610
force did some interesting work on

3024
02:10:17,800 --> 02:10:15,890
magnetic mapping let's go into that in

3025
02:10:20,830 --> 02:10:17,810
our next segment with Chris Ruth Kowski

3026
02:10:28,750 --> 02:10:20,840
with Jean and Kay Kay you're in the para

3027
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cast GCS proudly sponsored by unseen now

3028
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3029
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3030
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3040
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3045
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3052
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3053
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the genesis communications network is

3054
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one of America's premier broadcasters of

3055
02:11:47,210 --> 02:11:44,820
captivating talk radio we thank you for

3056
02:11:48,860 --> 02:11:47,220
listening now just imagine there are

3057
02:11:50,960 --> 02:11:48,870
thousands of people who are just as

3058
02:11:53,090 --> 02:11:50,970
passionate about radio as you are but

3059
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what you may not realize is how easy and

3060
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3061
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3062
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3063
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3064
02:12:05,000 --> 02:12:02,910
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3065
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3066
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3067
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3068
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3069
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3070
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3071
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3072
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3074
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3079
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3080
02:12:45,110 --> 02:12:42,660
about the Berkey guy so you may know a

3081
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few things about him for example you are

3082
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well aware of the superior quality and

3083
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3084
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and accessories but did you know the

3085
02:12:55,700 --> 02:12:53,790
Burr Keys have had independent lab tests

3086
02:12:58,070 --> 02:12:55,710
done to prove just how effective they

3087
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are it's true and he can email you the

3088
02:13:03,050 --> 02:13:00,990
test results just visit go Berkey com

3089
02:13:05,090 --> 02:13:03,060
you may also know that the Berkey guy

3090
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has helped tens of thousands of people

3091
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get better prepared now here's something

3092
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3093
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3094
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3095
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3096
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3097
02:13:24,440 --> 02:13:21,870
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3098
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3099
02:13:28,640 --> 02:13:26,850
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3100
02:13:31,040 --> 02:13:28,650
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3101
02:13:34,280 --> 02:13:31,050
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3102
02:13:37,670 --> 02:13:34,290
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3103
02:13:39,950 --> 02:13:37,680
e.com home of a perky guy hi this is

3104
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Larry Smith sometimes bad things happen

3105
02:13:43,670 --> 02:13:42,000
to good people like when the jeweler

3106
02:13:45,380 --> 02:13:43,680
ruined my ring and wouldn't do anything

3107
02:13:47,360 --> 02:13:45,390
about it but when my LegalShield

3108
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attorney called him and told him what my

3109
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rights were I received a check for over

3110
02:13:53,130 --> 02:13:50,679
twenty one hundred

3111
02:13:54,419 --> 02:13:53,140
worry less and live more with LS

3112
02:14:00,390 --> 02:13:54,429
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3113
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3114
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3115
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3116
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case to case

3117
02:14:10,740 --> 02:14:09,040
next to water and food you need a safe

3118
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3119
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preparedness needs spare fuel is the

3120
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answer

3121
02:14:18,600 --> 02:14:16,150
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3122
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3123
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3124
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is safe to store with your other

3126
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3127
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years go to get spare fuel comm for

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special pricing that's get spare fuel

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3130
02:14:51,510 --> 02:14:47,840
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

3131
02:15:02,980 --> 02:14:57,300
you

3132
02:15:05,620 --> 02:15:02,990
O'Brien's secrets of the mysterious

3133
02:15:08,110 --> 02:15:05,630
Valley or he sums up lots of years of

3134
02:15:10,030 --> 02:15:08,120
research we have a free copy of the

3135
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3136
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all you have to do is sign up for our

3137
02:15:18,430 --> 02:15:15,230
weekly newsletter the power cast

3138
02:15:21,460 --> 02:15:18,440
newsletter go to the power cast com the

3139
02:15:24,190 --> 02:15:21,470
power cast com sign up and we'll email

3140
02:15:27,070 --> 02:15:24,200
you a link to download that newsletter

3141
02:15:29,080 --> 02:15:27,080
Chris Bukowski is joining us and we're

3142
02:15:31,930 --> 02:15:29,090
focusing on the UFO research

3143
02:15:34,000 --> 02:15:31,940
particularly in Canada talking about the

3144
02:15:36,670 --> 02:15:34,010
late will Byrd Smith and some of his

3145
02:15:38,920 --> 02:15:36,680
activities let me just move away because

3146
02:15:41,470 --> 02:15:38,930
we have only two segments left trying to

3147
02:15:43,600 --> 02:15:41,480
look at different implications of UFO

3148
02:15:46,570 --> 02:15:43,610
research and I'll start with this before

3149
02:15:49,990 --> 02:15:46,580
I ask you more about your 25 years the

3150
02:15:52,120 --> 02:15:50,000
15,000 sightings that you collected and

3151
02:15:56,170 --> 02:15:52,130
that is do you think there's an answer

3152
02:16:00,340 --> 02:15:56,180
that will come in our lifetimes release

3153
02:16:05,560 --> 02:16:00,350
my son's lifetime to the whole question

3154
02:16:09,580 --> 02:16:05,570
completely that's a good question it

3155
02:16:11,770 --> 02:16:09,590
depends on the direction that you think

3156
02:16:13,570 --> 02:16:11,780
that the UFO phenomena is taking if

3157
02:16:15,820 --> 02:16:13,580
you're thinking that the UFO phenomena

3158
02:16:19,450 --> 02:16:15,830
represents an alien intervention of some

3159
02:16:21,100 --> 02:16:19,460
sort I suspect we're going to be getting

3160
02:16:23,440 --> 02:16:21,110
some more information over the the next

3161
02:16:25,510 --> 02:16:23,450
little while because we're probably only

3162
02:16:28,450 --> 02:16:25,520
a few years away now

3163
02:16:31,270 --> 02:16:28,460
for astronomers to announced the

3164
02:16:34,600 --> 02:16:31,280
discovery of a truly earth-like planet

3165
02:16:36,400 --> 02:16:34,610
within close proximity we're very close

3166
02:16:38,110 --> 02:16:36,410
to that there than many exoplanets which

3167
02:16:40,750 --> 02:16:38,120
have been discovered some are you know

3168
02:16:43,780 --> 02:16:40,760
too hot too cold too close to the star

3169
02:16:45,610 --> 02:16:43,790
and so forth probably very close to one

3170
02:16:47,080 --> 02:16:45,620
that's very much like ourselves and

3171
02:16:49,810 --> 02:16:47,090
there's been a lot of speculation to

3172
02:16:51,490 --> 02:16:49,820
what that means if we do find one that's

3173
02:16:53,200 --> 02:16:51,500
very much like Earth very close to us do

3174
02:16:55,390 --> 02:16:53,210
we make some attempts to contact them

3175
02:16:58,810 --> 02:16:55,400
and why wouldn't you know something

3176
02:17:00,400 --> 02:16:58,820
that's there contact us in terms of

3177
02:17:03,390 --> 02:17:00,410
trying to understand the UFO phenomena

3178
02:17:06,250 --> 02:17:03,400
in terms of what has been covered up or

3179
02:17:08,290 --> 02:17:06,260
the documentation or is there enough

3180
02:17:10,719 --> 02:17:08,300
investigation going on

3181
02:17:12,040 --> 02:17:10,729
I have no doubt that various governments

3182
02:17:14,200 --> 02:17:12,050
in the world have more information than

3183
02:17:16,570 --> 02:17:14,210
they're letting on I mean there must be

3184
02:17:18,820 --> 02:17:16,580
more documentation of cases there's a

3185
02:17:20,559 --> 02:17:18,830
big gap in the United States what

3186
02:17:23,709 --> 02:17:20,569
happened after blue look for example

3187
02:17:25,330 --> 02:17:23,719
since 1970 what happened to all the

3188
02:17:27,339 --> 02:17:25,340
cases that are that are being reported

3189
02:17:31,089 --> 02:17:27,349
XANA is there an investigation going on

3190
02:17:32,379 --> 02:17:31,099
even during Blue Book you know there's a

3191
02:17:34,629 --> 02:17:32,389
lot of evidence that there were good

3192
02:17:35,830 --> 02:17:34,639
cases that were being funneled elsewhere

3193
02:17:38,919 --> 02:17:35,840
so they weren't part of the Blue Book

3194
02:17:41,230 --> 02:17:38,929
study where are all those reports is

3195
02:17:41,589 --> 02:17:41,240
there a high level investigation going

3196
02:17:44,290 --> 02:17:41,599
on

3197
02:17:46,120 --> 02:17:44,300
I suspect that simply by the nature of

3198
02:17:49,719 --> 02:17:46,130
the beast that there would be some

3199
02:17:52,570 --> 02:17:49,729
high-level investigations in a number of

3200
02:17:55,570 --> 02:17:52,580
various governments whether that means

3201
02:17:57,820 --> 02:17:55,580
that the UFOs are real in the sense of

3202
02:18:01,059 --> 02:17:57,830
spaceships to another planet or test

3203
02:18:03,280 --> 02:18:01,069
projects for military applications or a

3204
02:18:04,629 --> 02:18:03,290
natural phenomenon that may be used in

3205
02:18:06,070 --> 02:18:04,639
the case of Wilbur Smith what he was

3206
02:18:08,549 --> 02:18:06,080
looking into possible military

3207
02:18:10,839 --> 02:18:08,559
applications you know having military

3208
02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:10,849
vehicles traveling on magnetic lines of

3209
02:18:15,309 --> 02:18:13,130
force that type of thing I don't know

3210
02:18:17,799 --> 02:18:15,319
but I suspect that there is more to be

3211
02:18:20,280 --> 02:18:17,809
found and it's simply through decent

3212
02:18:23,290 --> 02:18:20,290
investigation diligence on the part of

3213
02:18:25,919 --> 02:18:23,300
UFO investigators and perhaps the Legion

3214
02:18:28,419 --> 02:18:25,929
PSA's of perhaps alliances with

3215
02:18:30,910 --> 02:18:28,429
debunkers and skeptics I mean I'm not I

3216
02:18:35,080 --> 02:18:30,920
think that for an example in the case of

3217
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:35,090
Ted Mullins study of satellite reentry's

3218
02:18:39,490 --> 02:18:38,090
there's no question that if UFO

3219
02:18:41,650 --> 02:18:39,500
investigators were working much closer

3220
02:18:42,969 --> 02:18:41,660
with people involved in the study of

3221
02:18:45,280 --> 02:18:42,979
satellites and their orbits and

3222
02:18:48,160 --> 02:18:45,290
reentry's that a lot of classic UFO

3223
02:18:50,679 --> 02:18:48,170
cases might be solved or might have more

3224
02:18:52,150 --> 02:18:50,689
information and in you know in military

3225
02:18:54,099 --> 02:18:52,160
applications maybe people with

3226
02:18:56,440 --> 02:18:54,109
connections to the military might assist

3227
02:18:58,389 --> 02:18:56,450
UFO investigators in coming clean and

3228
02:19:01,179 --> 02:18:58,399
trying to understand what's going on

3229
02:19:03,940 --> 02:19:01,189
with regard to some classic cases of the

3230
02:19:06,549 --> 02:19:03,950
past maybe even some coming up in the

3231
02:19:09,480 --> 02:19:06,559
past few years so I think we're on the

3232
02:19:12,849 --> 02:19:09,490
dawn of some you know changes to ufology

3233
02:19:14,410 --> 02:19:12,859
probably both good and bad I think that

3234
02:19:16,690 --> 02:19:14,420
there's a desperate need for a good

3235
02:19:19,330 --> 02:19:16,700
investigation I think it's such a small

3236
02:19:21,339 --> 02:19:19,340
fraction maybe only five percent of all

3237
02:19:22,169 --> 02:19:21,349
UFO cases are being adequately

3238
02:19:25,060 --> 02:19:22,179
investigated

3239
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:25,070
hopefully people will be looking at or

3240
02:19:29,380 --> 02:19:28,130
listening to podcast like this wanting

3241
02:19:31,300 --> 02:19:29,390
to get more involved wanting to learn

3242
02:19:32,560 --> 02:19:31,310
more about the phenomenon not dismissing

3243
02:19:34,630 --> 02:19:32,570
it out of hand and not embracing

3244
02:19:36,220 --> 02:19:34,640
everything they read about completely

3245
02:19:38,680 --> 02:19:36,230
either we're trying to understand what's

3246
02:19:41,410 --> 02:19:38,690
going on and lazing with the scientific

3247
02:19:43,330 --> 02:19:41,420
community there's a good invisible

3248
02:19:45,640 --> 02:19:43,340
college out there that the valet used to

3249
02:19:48,340 --> 02:19:45,650
describe scientists who are open to the

3250
02:19:50,770 --> 02:19:48,350
possibility of that there's real value

3251
02:19:54,430 --> 02:19:50,780
in studying the UFO phenomenon I think

3252
02:19:57,011 --> 02:19:54,440
that as we progress into the future that

3253
02:19:58,720 --> 02:19:57,021
some of the grad students of today will

3254
02:20:00,580 --> 02:19:58,730
be taking a closer look at what's going

3255
02:20:02,980 --> 02:20:00,590
on in the future there's a general

3256
02:20:05,530 --> 02:20:02,990
perception I guess this is based on the

3257
02:20:07,750 --> 02:20:05,540
attendance profile of recent UFO

3258
02:20:10,390 --> 02:20:07,760
conventions that most of the people who

3259
02:20:12,670 --> 02:20:10,400
look into these things are over 50 it's

3260
02:20:15,040 --> 02:20:12,680
not like you know we had two to four

3261
02:20:17,500 --> 02:20:15,050
thousand people at this contact in the

3262
02:20:19,600 --> 02:20:17,510
desert event four hundred people at the

3263
02:20:21,970 --> 02:20:19,610
recent MUFON convention but a hundred

3264
02:20:25,511 --> 02:20:21,980
thirty thousand at comic-con San Diego

3265
02:20:28,000 --> 02:20:25,521
so is this a subject just for older

3266
02:20:30,580 --> 02:20:28,010
people or do young people simply consume

3267
02:20:33,040 --> 02:20:30,590
their media differently I think that

3268
02:20:36,011 --> 02:20:33,050
there's a need to listen to the wisdom

3269
02:20:37,660 --> 02:20:36,021
of the elders certainly and the UFO

3270
02:20:40,511 --> 02:20:37,670
phenomena go back aways in fact people

3271
02:20:43,301 --> 02:20:40,521
starting in to looking at the phenomenon

3272
02:20:45,190 --> 02:20:43,311
recently and pretending that the past 50

3273
02:20:46,900 --> 02:20:45,200
years of your apology doesn't exist

3274
02:20:48,250 --> 02:20:46,910
they're gonna reinvent the wheel I'm

3275
02:20:50,261 --> 02:20:48,260
really not appreciating what's been

3276
02:20:51,310 --> 02:20:50,271
going on I'm always encountering people

3277
02:20:53,261 --> 02:20:51,320
who come up with theories that have been

3278
02:20:55,150 --> 02:20:53,271
thought about thirty years ago at the

3279
02:20:57,310 --> 02:20:55,160
same time your point about comic-con is

3280
02:20:59,680 --> 02:20:57,320
very good in fact one of the best

3281
02:21:01,690 --> 02:20:59,690
attended talks I ever gave was at the

3282
02:21:04,420 --> 02:21:01,700
world con when it was up here in Canada

3283
02:21:06,070 --> 02:21:04,430
in about 1986 or so we're all kind by

3284
02:21:09,280 --> 02:21:06,080
the way as a science fiction convention

3285
02:21:11,020 --> 02:21:09,290
folks yeah supposedly the largest

3286
02:21:13,360 --> 02:21:11,030
although comic-con these days is much

3287
02:21:15,490 --> 02:21:13,370
much larger but yeah and I gave a

3288
02:21:17,051 --> 02:21:15,500
presentation on UFOs and it was very

3289
02:21:19,660 --> 02:21:17,061
well received there were a lot of

3290
02:21:22,120 --> 02:21:19,670
skeptics in the audience but by and

3291
02:21:25,330 --> 02:21:22,130
large the science fiction community was

3292
02:21:27,370 --> 02:21:25,340
interested in hearing about the UFO

3293
02:21:28,270 --> 02:21:27,380
phenomena from a straight point of view

3294
02:21:29,680 --> 02:21:28,280
I mean they weren't necessarily

3295
02:21:31,930 --> 02:21:29,690
interested in the abductions and

3296
02:21:34,030 --> 02:21:31,940
contactee stuff because they read that

3297
02:21:35,630 --> 02:21:34,040
all the time in the comic books and in

3298
02:21:37,939 --> 02:21:35,640
science fiction literature they wanted

3299
02:21:40,189 --> 02:21:37,949
what was real and the fact that there

3300
02:21:42,590 --> 02:21:40,199
are real science panels at science

3301
02:21:45,710 --> 02:21:42,600
fiction conventions and at comic-con now

3302
02:21:48,200 --> 02:21:45,720
to suggest that there is a need for good

3303
02:21:49,429 --> 02:21:48,210
science and good understanding of the

3304
02:21:50,929 --> 02:21:49,439
world in which we live in the

3305
02:21:53,179 --> 02:21:50,939
understanding the universe I think

3306
02:21:55,519 --> 02:21:53,189
there's a way to bridge between the the

3307
02:21:58,370 --> 02:21:55,529
old guard and the people coming on board

3308
02:22:02,120 --> 02:21:58,380
now traditionally though I found that

3309
02:22:05,540 --> 02:22:02,130
people in the science fiction field tend

3310
02:22:07,610 --> 02:22:05,550
to be negative about UFOs and maybe that

3311
02:22:09,439 --> 02:22:07,620
change with regard to your session at

3312
02:22:11,750 --> 02:22:09,449
Worldcon but that's been my experience

3313
02:22:12,649 --> 02:22:11,760
over the years and maybe that's a

3314
02:22:15,500 --> 02:22:12,659
helpful change

3315
02:22:16,700 --> 02:22:15,510
yeah and it's true that by and large

3316
02:22:19,160 --> 02:22:16,710
science fiction people aren't really

3317
02:22:22,250 --> 02:22:19,170
into UFOs it's looked upon as its own

3318
02:22:25,399 --> 02:22:22,260
genre and it is interesting that many

3319
02:22:26,870 --> 02:22:25,409
UFO conventions resemble scientific

3320
02:22:29,210 --> 02:22:26,880
conventions in a lot of way and their

3321
02:22:31,490 --> 02:22:29,220
structure and the way the discussions go

3322
02:22:32,990 --> 02:22:31,500
and so forth even to the point of the

3323
02:22:35,059 --> 02:22:33,000
huckster tables being some of the same

3324
02:22:38,809 --> 02:22:35,069
tables at UFO conventions and science

3325
02:22:40,809 --> 02:22:38,819
fiction conventions I think that that it

3326
02:22:44,360 --> 02:22:40,819
is changing I think that young people

3327
02:22:45,950 --> 02:22:44,370
into the the you know science fiction

3328
02:22:47,660 --> 02:22:45,960
that I catch in manga and anime now more

3329
02:22:49,399 --> 02:22:47,670
than anything else if you look at the

3330
02:22:53,389 --> 02:22:49,409
people attending manga manga and anime

3331
02:22:55,099 --> 02:22:53,399
conventions they really are Unversed in

3332
02:22:57,439 --> 02:22:55,109
ufology and maybe they need an

3333
02:22:59,599 --> 02:22:57,449
introduction and I think that there

3334
02:23:02,000 --> 02:22:59,609
probably should be a better effort to

3335
02:23:04,910 --> 02:23:02,010
reach out to these these groups of

3336
02:23:07,160 --> 02:23:04,920
individuals and just get a dialogue

3337
02:23:08,570 --> 02:23:07,170
going not to to thrust anything on them

3338
02:23:11,330 --> 02:23:08,580
but just let's say let's talk about

3339
02:23:13,429 --> 02:23:11,340
what's really going on because you know

3340
02:23:15,229 --> 02:23:13,439
there's some interesting cases out there

3341
02:23:18,019 --> 02:23:15,239
in ufology that if they're not science

3342
02:23:20,450 --> 02:23:18,029
fiction maybe they are real what would

3343
02:23:21,860 --> 02:23:20,460
be nice to see a change in the world of

3344
02:23:24,469 --> 02:23:21,870
science fiction I'll tell you what

3345
02:23:28,280 --> 02:23:24,479
there's another question in the till

3346
02:23:31,099 --> 02:23:28,290
here from Randall our friend ufology on

3347
02:23:34,849 --> 02:23:31,109
the forums your fellow Canadian and he's

3348
02:23:36,500 --> 02:23:34,859
asking about the top five cases that you

3349
02:23:38,420 --> 02:23:36,510
investigated out of those fifteen

3350
02:23:40,370 --> 02:23:38,430
thousand that you collected of course

3351
02:23:43,910 --> 02:23:40,380
you mentioned before that it was maybe

3352
02:23:45,320 --> 02:23:43,920
but one percent that were unknown of

3353
02:23:47,809 --> 02:23:45,330
course we all joke about the one percent

3354
02:23:48,929 --> 02:23:47,819
but in this case if we had one good UFO

3355
02:23:50,729 --> 02:23:48,939
sighting it would

3356
02:23:52,920 --> 02:23:50,739
be sufficient to prove that something

3357
02:23:55,739 --> 02:23:52,930
weird is going on so in our next segment

3358
02:23:58,739 --> 02:23:55,749
a question on the table what are the

3359
02:24:00,719 --> 02:23:58,749
best five cases or any cases that our

3360
02:24:03,359 --> 02:24:00,729
listeners will find interesting

3361
02:24:06,779 --> 02:24:03,369
compelling and the ones that you worked

3362
02:24:10,769 --> 02:24:06,789
on Chris Rutkowski and his crew looked

3363
02:24:13,410 --> 02:24:10,779
into 15,000 cases 25 years of UFO

3364
02:24:16,109 --> 02:24:13,420
research in Canada one more segment to

3365
02:24:22,280 --> 02:24:16,119
come with Jean and Chris O'Brien you're

3366
02:24:22,290 --> 02:24:25,930
[Music]

3367
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free from the shackles of Corporate

3368
02:24:38,001 --> 02:24:31,730
America we're the place for independent

3369
02:24:39,770 --> 02:24:38,011
thinkers attack of the rock ODEs has

3370
02:24:41,511 --> 02:24:39,780
been well received by critics and

3371
02:24:44,631 --> 02:24:41,521
readers alike it's a thrill a minute

3372
02:24:47,001 --> 02:24:44,641
story you'll never forget a former US

3373
02:24:49,100 --> 02:24:47,011
military intelligence officer is haunted

3374
02:24:51,410 --> 02:24:49,110
by intense dreams about a beautiful

3375
02:24:54,530 --> 02:24:51,420
woman pleading for his help after a

3376
02:24:56,631 --> 02:24:54,540
terrible battle in outer space but the

3377
02:24:58,520 --> 02:24:56,641
dreams turn out to be true and thrust

3378
02:25:01,551 --> 02:24:58,530
him into a telepathic love affair with a

3379
02:25:03,950 --> 02:25:01,561
woman whose faraway planet is intent on

3380
02:25:06,801 --> 02:25:03,960
destroying the earth and now the

3381
02:25:09,230 --> 02:25:06,811
gripping tale continues in the coming of

3382
02:25:11,870 --> 02:25:09,240
the protectors it's the second book of

3383
02:25:14,060 --> 02:25:11,880
the rock codes trilogy a galaxy spanning

3384
02:25:17,120 --> 02:25:14,070
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

3385
02:25:19,041 --> 02:25:17,130
against powerful fanatical enemies that

3386
02:25:21,620 --> 02:25:19,051
threaten the lives of freedom loving

3387
02:25:24,341 --> 02:25:21,630
beings everywhere attack of the rock

3388
02:25:27,080 --> 02:25:24,351
aids and the coming of the protectors

3389
02:25:29,990 --> 02:25:27,090
classic science fiction at its best

3390
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3394
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3395
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up now at GC and live.com hi this is

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a little over a year ago I began to do a

3444
02:27:44,139 --> 02:27:42,500
lot of research into why even if I had a

3445
02:27:46,179 --> 02:27:44,149
pretty good-sized meal that was still

3446
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starving and my research led me to a

3447
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well-known fact that most of the soils

3448
02:27:51,340 --> 02:27:50,270
that we grow our crops on here in the

3449
02:27:53,110 --> 02:27:51,350
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3450
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02:27:58,270 --> 02:27:55,760
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3470
02:28:47,890 --> 02:28:45,170
ellen guiley and you're listening to the

3471
02:28:49,180 --> 02:28:47,900
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

3472
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3473
02:29:08,439 --> 02:29:05,889
question on the table top five UFO cases

3474
02:29:10,510 --> 02:29:08,449
among the 15,000 you want to give us

3475
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:10,520
brief summaries of some of these cases

3476
02:29:15,639 --> 02:29:13,130
Chris Bukowski yeah that's that's a

3477
02:29:17,800 --> 02:29:15,649
tough one to pick out just five there's

3478
02:29:20,380 --> 02:29:17,810
no question that we've touched on some

3479
02:29:22,300 --> 02:29:20,390
of the top five of all time you know

3480
02:29:24,729 --> 02:29:22,310
we've met them in the Falcon Lake case

3481
02:29:25,779 --> 02:29:24,739
shag harbour landing burg we even we

3482
02:29:27,040 --> 02:29:25,789
haven't mentioned but people will

3483
02:29:29,469 --> 02:29:27,050
probably familiar with those always go

3484
02:29:33,729 --> 02:29:29,479
back quite a few years the past 25 years

3485
02:29:35,620 --> 02:29:33,739
I sat down with Geoff Ditman and Ashley

3486
02:29:36,939 --> 02:29:35,630
Kircher we went through all the you know

3487
02:29:39,489 --> 02:29:36,949
the ones that were considered

3488
02:29:41,469 --> 02:29:39,499
high-quality we said okay which ones are

3489
02:29:43,870 --> 02:29:41,479
the best of the best and we came up with

3490
02:29:47,109 --> 02:29:43,880
a an interesting list one that really

3491
02:29:50,559 --> 02:29:47,119
stands out for me is at PSICOM Alberta

3492
02:29:53,349 --> 02:29:50,569
and at PSICOM is barely a dot on the map

3493
02:29:57,580 --> 02:29:53,359
in southern Alberta quite close to the

3494
02:30:00,069 --> 02:29:57,590
American border in April of 2001 a

3495
02:30:03,309 --> 02:30:00,079
number of people had seen funnel shaped

3496
02:30:06,370 --> 02:30:03,319
flames descending from the sky and then

3497
02:30:09,550 --> 02:30:06,380
rising over rising into the sky again

3498
02:30:12,580 --> 02:30:09,560
and shortly after that a crater was

3499
02:30:14,920 --> 02:30:12,590
found in the field this was a you know

3500
02:30:18,309 --> 02:30:14,930
it's it looked like a a moon crater it

3501
02:30:21,010 --> 02:30:18,319
was about Oh 20 30 feet wide or

3502
02:30:24,729 --> 02:30:21,020
something like that and somebody said

3503
02:30:26,170 --> 02:30:24,739
well maybe it was a meteorite crater not

3504
02:30:27,279 --> 02:30:26,180
a jet you know something felt in the sky

3505
02:30:29,500 --> 02:30:27,289
and that's what it looked like because

3506
02:30:32,139 --> 02:30:29,510
it looked a lot like that this was

3507
02:30:34,540 --> 02:30:32,149
actually investigated by astronomers who

3508
02:30:37,899 --> 02:30:34,550
concluded that it was not a meteor

3509
02:30:40,479 --> 02:30:37,909
crater the question is then what was it

3510
02:30:42,550 --> 02:30:40,489
and we actually have you know a detailed

3511
02:30:45,519 --> 02:30:42,560
analysis of this crater detailed study

3512
02:30:47,679 --> 02:30:45,529
is available the witnesses testify they

3513
02:30:49,599 --> 02:30:47,689
did see something would appear to fall

3514
02:30:52,120 --> 02:30:49,609
from the sky over this field and the

3515
02:30:54,849 --> 02:30:52,130
crater was physically there one of the

3516
02:30:58,059 --> 02:30:54,859
most puzzling cases that we ever

3517
02:30:59,590 --> 02:30:58,069
recorded during the this entire time one

3518
02:31:02,500 --> 02:30:59,600
case down four to go

3519
02:31:06,090 --> 02:31:02,510
well four quick okay I would then have

3520
02:31:09,519 --> 02:31:06,100
to go to pickle Lake Ontario February

3521
02:31:10,779 --> 02:31:09,529
1994 a pilot was flying over

3522
02:31:13,420 --> 02:31:10,789
northwestern Ontario and saw a

3523
02:31:14,219 --> 02:31:13,430
saucer-shaped object with a classic

3524
02:31:17,160 --> 02:31:14,229
curved top

3525
02:31:19,380 --> 02:31:17,170
on and Brown an orange in color with

3526
02:31:22,590 --> 02:31:19,390
dark spots along his room it actually

3527
02:31:24,960 --> 02:31:22,600
flew below his plane and then rose up to

3528
02:31:26,969 --> 02:31:24,970
his altitude closed to within about 300

3529
02:31:29,610 --> 02:31:26,979
yards and then douve to the ground

3530
02:31:31,469 --> 02:31:29,620
scared the heck out of him and the pilot

3531
02:31:33,690 --> 02:31:31,479
said that he was you know very very

3532
02:31:36,570 --> 02:31:33,700
puzzling about - puzzled about what

3533
02:31:38,580 --> 02:31:36,580
possibly could have occurred another one

3534
02:31:40,500 --> 02:31:38,590
from the top five I mentioned this one

3535
02:31:43,110 --> 02:31:40,510
already the the nurse who returned home

3536
02:31:46,920 --> 02:31:43,120
from working at a hospital this is

3537
02:31:48,570 --> 02:31:46,930
November of 1992 the abduction case not

3538
02:31:50,460 --> 02:31:48,580
a classic abduction because these were

3539
02:31:51,900 --> 02:31:50,470
not the classic greys or something a

3540
02:31:53,760 --> 02:31:51,910
little bit different but a lot of the

3541
02:31:56,630 --> 02:31:53,770
elements are there included missing time

3542
02:31:59,460 --> 02:31:56,640
I'm including it because very few

3543
02:32:00,990 --> 02:31:59,470
abduction cases were physically reported

3544
02:32:03,900 --> 02:32:01,000
to us they're actually similarly

3545
02:32:05,910 --> 02:32:03,910
reported to the Canadian Forces there

3546
02:32:08,190 --> 02:32:05,920
was some that reported to us this was

3547
02:32:12,420 --> 02:32:08,200
reported very early on in the Canadian

3548
02:32:14,030 --> 02:32:12,430
UFO survey 1992 and we had the

3549
02:32:16,500 --> 02:32:14,040
opportunity to speak with the nurse

3550
02:32:19,560 --> 02:32:16,510
talked with her at length as she drew

3551
02:32:21,810 --> 02:32:19,570
the imagery from it it was a very very

3552
02:32:24,660 --> 02:32:21,820
curious case and that we included it in

3553
02:32:27,270 --> 02:32:24,670
our list of the the top of the past 25

3554
02:32:30,660 --> 02:32:27,280
years if I was to go into another one

3555
02:32:32,900 --> 02:32:30,670
London Ontario December of 1991 a pilot

3556
02:32:35,670 --> 02:32:32,910
of a commercial airliner flying along

3557
02:32:38,969 --> 02:32:35,680
33,000 feet when all of a sudden the

3558
02:32:40,890 --> 02:32:38,979
airborne avoid avoidance collision radar

3559
02:32:43,140 --> 02:32:40,900
detected three objects directly ahead of

3560
02:32:45,540 --> 02:32:43,150
his plane the objects moved to beside

3561
02:32:47,160 --> 02:32:45,550
him at a range of about six miles and

3562
02:32:49,980 --> 02:32:47,170
pasted them and then they flew away and

3563
02:32:52,020 --> 02:32:49,990
it's reported that the toronto air

3564
02:32:54,030 --> 02:32:52,030
traffic control reported the objects on

3565
02:32:56,550 --> 02:32:54,040
radar as well so here's a radar case

3566
02:32:58,710 --> 02:32:56,560
that that was reported over the past

3567
02:33:02,190 --> 02:32:58,720
twenty five years and finally I have to

3568
02:33:04,650 --> 02:33:02,200
include it Montreal Quebec 1990 in

3569
02:33:07,110 --> 02:33:04,660
November a woman was swimming on a pool

3570
02:33:10,410 --> 02:33:07,120
that was on the 17th floor of a very

3571
02:33:13,410 --> 02:33:10,420
large hotel in downtown Montreal she saw

3572
02:33:15,450 --> 02:33:13,420
an object a stationary in the sky

3573
02:33:17,340 --> 02:33:15,460
projecting a series of light beams in

3574
02:33:19,710 --> 02:33:17,350
the sky police were called and

3575
02:33:22,020 --> 02:33:19,720
eventually dozens of people saw this

3576
02:33:24,650 --> 02:33:22,030
this object and photographs were taken

3577
02:33:27,420 --> 02:33:24,660
which persisted for three hours

3578
02:33:29,130 --> 02:33:27,430
stationary in the sky and then van

3579
02:33:31,489 --> 02:33:29,140
number of explanations have been

3580
02:33:33,779 --> 02:33:31,499
produced whether this was some sort of

3581
02:33:36,210 --> 02:33:33,789
specialized Northern Lights -

3582
02:33:36,750 --> 02:33:36,220
reflections from nearby buildings and so

3583
02:33:39,719 --> 02:33:36,760
forth

3584
02:33:41,760 --> 02:33:39,729
hasn't adequately been explained but we

3585
02:33:44,729 --> 02:33:41,770
you know could have been a reflection

3586
02:33:45,420 --> 02:33:44,739
from some some skylights and things like

3587
02:33:47,790 --> 02:33:45,430
that yet

3588
02:33:49,349 --> 02:33:47,800
it's a puzzle seen by very many people

3589
02:33:51,840 --> 02:33:49,359
investigated by the police

3590
02:33:54,059 --> 02:33:51,850
now when you refer to the radar case

3591
02:33:56,729 --> 02:33:54,069
before this was a simultaneous radar

3592
02:33:57,540 --> 02:33:56,739
visual sighting no we the nothing visual

3593
02:34:00,210 --> 02:33:57,550
was ever seen

3594
02:34:02,519 --> 02:34:00,220
this was simply by the pilots radar and

3595
02:34:05,099 --> 02:34:02,529
also detected by the ground radar all

3596
02:34:07,409 --> 02:34:05,109
right so it was simultaneous it was

3597
02:34:09,029 --> 02:34:07,419
simultaneous not visual now the reason I

3598
02:34:12,149 --> 02:34:09,039
mention this is because one of the

3599
02:34:14,519 --> 02:34:12,159
comments that Bob Shafer made on last

3600
02:34:17,369 --> 02:34:14,529
week's episode he was disputing the

3601
02:34:20,279 --> 02:34:17,379
early radar visual cases one saying they

3602
02:34:22,199 --> 02:34:20,289
were in different locations and if that

3603
02:34:24,420 --> 02:34:22,209
didn't work well maybe our radar wasn't

3604
02:34:27,239 --> 02:34:24,430
as good then so they were basically

3605
02:34:29,189 --> 02:34:27,249
false positives yeah as a matter of fact

3606
02:34:31,139 --> 02:34:29,199
there's a series of really interesting

3607
02:34:33,510 --> 02:34:31,149
cases during the really early days of

3608
02:34:35,939 --> 02:34:33,520
your quality in the 40s I think it was

3609
02:34:38,250 --> 02:34:35,949
1948 when the radar installation

3610
02:34:41,130 --> 02:34:38,260
American radar installation and Labrador

3611
02:34:43,769 --> 02:34:41,140
had a number of UFO was detected on

3612
02:34:46,739 --> 02:34:43,779
radar and on different sets as a matter

3613
02:34:48,869 --> 02:34:46,749
of fact and this is well documented the

3614
02:34:52,260 --> 02:34:48,879
there's many many case files regarding

3615
02:34:53,969 --> 02:34:52,270
this where the same radar that was used

3616
02:34:55,739 --> 02:34:53,979
to vector in some of the aircraft that

3617
02:34:57,719 --> 02:34:55,749
were known to be flying detected other

3618
02:34:59,790 --> 02:34:57,729
things too that weren't flying at all at

3619
02:35:01,439 --> 02:34:59,800
the time you can up in both ways you can

3620
02:35:04,710 --> 02:35:01,449
either say that the radar isn't

3621
02:35:07,710 --> 02:35:04,720
functioning at all or malfunctioning or

3622
02:35:09,569 --> 02:35:07,720
the fact that you know it it is actually

3623
02:35:11,939 --> 02:35:09,579
very good and usable in military

3624
02:35:15,090 --> 02:35:11,949
operations certainly we've come a long

3625
02:35:17,819 --> 02:35:15,100
ways into 1940s we don't admittedly get

3626
02:35:19,920 --> 02:35:17,829
a lot of radar cases anymore certainly

3627
02:35:22,529 --> 02:35:19,930
not the same number that we would be

3628
02:35:24,599 --> 02:35:22,539
getting back then radar is a bit iffy

3629
02:35:26,639 --> 02:35:24,609
although again you know these are the

3630
02:35:29,250 --> 02:35:26,649
same pieces of equipment that are used

3631
02:35:30,960 --> 02:35:29,260
every day and if something is detected

3632
02:35:33,840 --> 02:35:30,970
on radar that shouldn't be there I think

3633
02:35:36,029 --> 02:35:33,850
it's worth a - worth a close look and

3634
02:35:39,239 --> 02:35:36,039
besides we don't have an avalanche of

3635
02:35:40,770 --> 02:35:39,249
aircraft crashes so obviously the radar

3636
02:35:42,570 --> 02:35:40,780
is doing something right

3637
02:35:44,640 --> 02:35:42,580
there's no question that something's

3638
02:35:48,030 --> 02:35:44,650
going right although I don't know about

3639
02:35:51,720 --> 02:35:48,040
this theory about Roswell that the radar

3640
02:35:54,480 --> 02:35:51,730
brought down et you have to think is et

3641
02:35:56,430 --> 02:35:54,490
that primitive okay yeah would they

3642
02:35:57,690 --> 02:35:56,440
really fly all the way here from a

3643
02:36:00,660 --> 02:35:57,700
distant planet and get into a

3644
02:36:03,170 --> 02:36:00,670
thunderstorm and correct well it was a

3645
02:36:07,680 --> 02:36:03,180
super duper secret high-powered radar

3646
02:36:09,390 --> 02:36:07,690
yes yeah Chris give us a short list of

3647
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:09,400
some of the up-and-coming younger

3648
02:36:14,190 --> 02:36:12,010
generation of investigators that you

3649
02:36:17,910 --> 02:36:14,200
feel their work should be supported and

3650
02:36:20,130 --> 02:36:17,920
and dodged oh that's an interesting

3651
02:36:23,400 --> 02:36:20,140
question God in short they're like a

3652
02:36:26,400 --> 02:36:23,410
minute or a minute now wait to uh

3653
02:36:31,320 --> 02:36:26,410
certainly uh Kirk Collins is quite quite

3654
02:36:32,070 --> 02:36:31,330
good in his work and it'll Claudette who

3655
02:36:33,930 --> 02:36:32,080
bear

3656
02:36:36,360 --> 02:36:33,940
she's a Canadian I have to give a plug

3657
02:36:39,540 --> 02:36:36,370
to the Canadians because you know I

3658
02:36:41,460 --> 02:36:39,550
think they should that she's been doing

3659
02:36:45,030 --> 02:36:41,470
some very excellent work recently in

3660
02:36:48,840 --> 02:36:45,040
Alberta and she's been investigating sue

3661
02:36:51,590 --> 02:36:48,850
Sinclair in Toronto is doing some very

3662
02:36:55,560 --> 02:36:51,600
good work with her partner Matthew DDA

3663
02:36:56,790 --> 02:36:55,570
and been in contact with all I'm trying

3664
02:36:57,480 --> 02:36:56,800
to remember some of the individuals down

3665
02:36:59,850 --> 02:36:57,490
in the States

3666
02:37:02,310 --> 02:36:59,860
Oh Micah Hanks I think is a very

3667
02:37:04,110 --> 02:37:02,320
interesting person very very

3668
02:37:05,550 --> 02:37:04,120
knowledgeable and he's been doing some

3669
02:37:07,320 --> 02:37:05,560
very interesting work and offering some

3670
02:37:09,090 --> 02:37:07,330
discussions of his own yeah there's a

3671
02:37:10,860 --> 02:37:09,100
handful right there that's a good

3672
02:37:12,270 --> 02:37:10,870
handful Mecca Hanks was on the show a

3673
02:37:15,360 --> 02:37:12,280
couple of weeks ago is a friend of the

3674
02:37:18,180 --> 02:37:15,370
show Kurt Collin is of course appears as

3675
02:37:21,330 --> 02:37:18,190
sentry in our forums and he's a regular

3676
02:37:24,510 --> 02:37:21,340
very very very productive participant

3677
02:37:27,450 --> 02:37:24,520
also helps us run the Jim Mosely dot-com

3678
02:37:28,110 --> 02:37:27,460
site a memorial site for the late Jim

3679
02:37:29,970 --> 02:37:28,120
Mosely

3680
02:37:31,590 --> 02:37:29,980
Chris Rutkowski please tell our

3681
02:37:35,640 --> 02:37:31,600
listeners where they can find more of

3682
02:37:38,010 --> 02:37:35,650
your stuff you can certainly go to my

3683
02:37:41,790 --> 02:37:38,020
blog which is you forum you fo are um

3684
02:37:43,710 --> 02:37:41,800
dot blog spot.com links there to various

3685
02:37:45,780 --> 02:37:43,720
books I actually have nine books

3686
02:37:49,230 --> 02:37:45,790
published in the UFO field in general

3687
02:37:50,130 --> 02:37:49,240
also the twenty five-year study and if

3688
02:37:51,870 --> 02:37:50,140
you want look at the Canadian UFO

3689
02:37:54,059 --> 02:37:51,880
surveys there's links there you can go

3690
02:37:57,000 --> 02:37:54,069
directly to survey Canadian

3691
02:37:59,699 --> 02:37:57,010
full report calm and by the way if you

3692
02:38:01,710 --> 02:37:59,709
sign up for our power cast newsletter

3693
02:38:04,199 --> 02:38:01,720
every week you get a commentary from me

3694
02:38:07,439 --> 02:38:04,209
and other people get your free copy at

3695
02:38:10,079 --> 02:38:07,449
the power cast calm the power cast Calm

3696
02:38:11,699 --> 02:38:10,089
sign up we'd get you a copy of the eBook

3697
02:38:14,489 --> 02:38:11,709
version of secrets of the mysterious

3698
02:38:16,739 --> 02:38:14,499
Valley from Chris O'Brien at the Peres

3699
02:38:20,189 --> 02:38:16,749
cast comm Chris's own site is our

3700
02:38:23,010 --> 02:38:20,199
strange planet calm our strange planet

3701
02:38:24,689 --> 02:38:23,020
calm if you buy a copy of the hardcover

3702
02:38:26,399 --> 02:38:24,699
edition actually it's a paperback

3703
02:38:28,679 --> 02:38:26,409
edition you buy a copy the physical

3704
02:38:32,579 --> 02:38:28,689
edition stalking the herd Chris will

3705
02:38:35,250 --> 02:38:32,589
sign and number it on Facebook as an

3706
02:38:38,699 --> 02:38:35,260
official para cast fan club on Twitter

3707
02:38:40,170 --> 02:38:38,709
we are known as the para cast some of

3708
02:38:41,670 --> 02:38:40,180
the people have other names for us but

3709
02:38:44,010 --> 02:38:41,680
we can't repeat them on Family Radio

3710
02:38:53,859 --> 02:38:44,020
Chris Bukowski thank you for joining us

3711
02:39:00,409 --> 02:38:57,380
the para cast featuring Jean Steinberg

3712
02:39:03,279 --> 02:39:00,419
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3713
02:39:07,010 --> 02:39:03,289
presentation of making the impossible